Do More Ministry

Excellent post! You have thought about this in ways that I have not, and I have given it much thought! I have had issues with tithing for 35 years, but have to subscribe to it as an Assembly of God pastor. However, I am honest with my congregation and teach them the way that I believe and they are very faithful!

Just for fun, try to prove tithes only from the NT. It can not be done. You can prove giving, but not tithes. At the first Church Council held in Jerusalem (found in Acts), the disciples settled what OT law the Gentile Believers had to follow in order to follow Christ. Tithes was not on the list.

The way that I teach stewardship is that the ONLY reason to give is because you WANT to. You give because you love God, your church and the mission of your church. You do not give because you "owe" or to receive a blessing.

God is not corrupt, he does not accept bribes. God is not in the "protection racket" you can not pay him off. But God does love a cheerful giver! He will bless when you give because you love. Otherwise, save your money.

Blessings!

Thanks for visiting my blog. I come by yours every now and then whenever google sends me email alerts for blogs that discuss tithing. I would respond on my blog, but it looks like i can give a much more thorough response with what you've written here.

1. Demands are relative. Last year, the Church organization spent 85% of their received funds for internal purposes. Only 3% actually went towards ministering for the needs of the unsaved. Somehow i think we missed the boat on that one. I venture to say that churches demands are not always God's.

2. The right type of generosity might i add. I don't believe that tithing is a minimum requirement and is not the "right" type of giving we should be asking for God's people to do.

3. Sure, churches best capture money, but as you say below, they are the worst on using it for practical needs.

4. I agree

5. You are over complicating the financial structure of the Church. The ONLY examples of giving that you will find in the new covenant are giving to supply for the basic needs. You will not see a single example of any other type of giving.

6. agreed

7. The problem with tithing is that a pastor gets a vision, and it could be out of touch with God's will, but all he has to do to ensure the funding of his vision is to throw out Malachi 3, and require a minimum amount. Spirit led giving allows people to receive discernment through God's Spirit as to what, where, and how they should give. If God's Spirit is calling a ministry than God's Spirit is capable of calling saints to fund it as well. This is a simple system of checks and balances set up by God so mankind couldn't create their own visions , call them from Spirit of God, and then force people to give a minimum amount that the Spirit of God has no control over.

The old testament religious system operated under the law, and was funded by the law. The new testament system is operating under the Spirit's calling, and therefore, is funded by the Spirit.

The law doesn't call pastor's into ministry, so why would the law fund their operation? The Spirit calls individuals, and the Spirit is in control of calling us how and where to give.

- -

I am sorry for the long comment. I've been to your blog a few times. I do appreciate your challenging messages for generosity. I am currently trying to write a book on generosity. I think it is a huge issue, it's just that right now, i'm afraid that giving more to God is really getting more for us and our own church. kind of selfish. Thanks for visiting my blog.

- jared bartholomew

Thanks for your reply.

The only point I want to clarify is your comments to #3. I didn't say that churches are the worst at using the money for practical needs. I said churches are the worst at making the connection to their people between their giving and what it accomplishes. Helping people understand what their dollar is accomplishing affirms that their giving decision was a good one.

Keep thinking on this subject. And let me know once you finish your book.

Blessings!

Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

I do find it somewhat problematic to parse out the Old and New Testaments in such a way that makes them seem at odds with one another. I don't think the intent of the New Testament writers was to erase the Old Testament but rather add to it. There was an assumption that the readers of the New Testament writings were already familiar with the Hebrew Bible.

For example, God tells the children of Israel in Deuteronomy that he chose them to be his people not because they were the greatest, but because he loved them. Sounds a lot like the grace Paul talks about to me.

Bottom line, the God of the Old Testament and New Testament is the same God.

When people understand that the source of all we have and are is God, then the decision to live generously is an easy one. It's a choice that precipitates directly from our understanding that what we have been given is a gift to be managed to the glory of God rather than ourselves.

When we believe that all that we have is as a result of what we have done, then God becomes an open hand in a long line of people trying to take what's rightfully ours away from us.

Keep thinking on this subject. Blessings!

Jared
Good post and conversation. I also use the Google alert system as I suppose you have noticed.

I especially like your comment that the law did not call NT gospel workers and the law is not required to support them.

Ben
Thanks for the discussion. There are many AOG pastors who have agreed with the three of us and have stopped teaching tithing. They often post to my web site.

As a conservative, evangelical and dispensationalist, I must point out that the New Covenant really is completely NEW. It is not a revision of the Old. The OT priests and Temple have been changed to the individual believer. The gospel workers are more like OT prophets who were either self-supporting or existed on freewill offerings. The cultic law which was only given to national Israel has been nailed to the cross and replaced by the moral law which is written in the hearts --the law of the Spirit of life in Christ per Romans 8:2. The OT law now sits in my yard like an old school bus. It reminds me how I do not need to make the same mistakes that OT Israel made and teaches me with their history.

The NT standards of righteousness by which we will be judged has changed to Jesus Christ because he has replaced the old standards and is now he only way, the only truth and the only life.

The intent of the NT writers is screamed out in Romans 3:21 "But now the righteousness of God apart from law is manifest." With Jesus it was either all of the law or none of it. That is why Matthew 5:19 and 20-48 and Romans 7:4/8:2 must be included in any discussion of Mt 5:17-18. Jesus completely fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law and He then became God's righteous standard of judgment.

Yes, the OT God and the NT God are the same. However, God was covenant bound by his own unchangeable oath to judge OT national Israel by and under the Law whereas he is covenant bound by his own oath to Melchizedek to judge the Church under the New Covenant. God must stay true to the terms of both of those covenants. God does not change, but his covenant requirements do change.

The USA can have one set of covenant requirement with Russia and an entirely different set with England yet the USA is the same.

Your thoughts?

Russell Earl Kelly

Dr. Kelly,

I think we must be careful about imposing later theological terms/developments on the Biblical writers. "Old" and "New" was a much later application of ideas, ideas than would have been foreign to the Biblical writers and first hearers of these words.

Thanks for visiting and your comments.

Blessings!