Great post - I'm personally committed to the pledge!

Nelson Searcy, Lead Pastor
The Journey Church of the City
www.ChurchLeaderInsights.com/blog

I want to speak on this subject from the perspective of a layman that has seen the effects of this very subject in my local church.

The pastor was buying sermons from Rick Warren's pastors.com for 3 years and pretty much reading them word for word from the pulpit but only omitting the parts that applied directly to Saddleback. He even went so far as to user personal illustrations of the sermon author and claim that they happened to him personally. And he would make statements that were in the sermon that he bought where the author said "my observation is" or "my opinion is" and claim this as his own as well.

This is outright deception and lying. What bothered me the most was not he used another person's sermon but he lied and said other's experiences were his own. How could a man practice his sermons in his prep time and know that these were lies he was getting ready to tell to us in the congregation. What does this say about the pastor's heart that he did this week after week, lying with no apparent conviction. The only reason he stopped was because he was caught.

He went on to claim that he did nothing wrong. Even citing permission from Warren's pastors.com. Warren's permission does not absolve someone of plagiarism nor does Rick Warren define what plagiarim is.

Let's use an anology:

If my daughter in High School buys a term paper from someone who gives her full permission to use the term paper that they created and then she turns it in, the author's permission will not excuse my daughter's plagiarism nor will it stop the teacher from giving my daughter a failing grade.

Now, people may say, "well that is in the secular world and we cant compare that to the church" I say that we in the church, especially our pastors should have a higher standard than what we see going on in the secular world.

JT also helped but this instructive on plagiarism together:

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/AskPastorJohn/ByTopic/25/1623_What_is_plagiarism/

The pastor at my church ended resigning over the matter after continual denial of any wrong doing. Many people left the church over this as well. Friendships were damaged among fellow brothers and all because of plagiarism in the pulpit.

Above reproach. Pastors are called to be above reproach so that no charge can be brought before them. Sermon plagiarism opens the door to integrity questioning.

What thing that wasnt mentioned in Stetzer's post was congregation expectations. When a congregation hires a pastor, they dont expect him to read canned sermons word for word from the pulpit. Otherwise, congregations could just hire brilliant orators and hand them a prepared sermon each week and ask him to perform. Congregations, me included, expect their pastor to be in the Word studying and bringing God's message for their local church and context to them. Does this mean that i do not think that other people's sermons should never be used my a local pastor? No! However, the pastor should just say something to the effect, "As i was preparing for the sermon this week, i came across this sermon from Spurgeon that resonatated with what I felt God was calling me to preach on". Just be UPFRONT and HONEST with the congregation. This way your integrity stays intact. Or if a pastor has been sick or extremely busy with matter of the church in a difficult season and didnt have time for proper sermon prep, tell the congregation what is going on and if the pastor was to use another person's sermon then it would be all out in the open.

You may not care for the word plagiarism but lets call a spade a spade. It is plagiarism when a pastor takes another sermon and passes it off on his own without any crediting of the source. To candy coat it otherwise is giving license to other pastors and it is perpetuating painful, Christ dishonoring church division that I witnessed first hand. Again, the pastor justified it all by saying he had permission to do what he did.

from the above DG link:

"The Problem with Plagiarism
The central problem with plagiarism is twofold: (1) it is stealing; and (2) it bears false witness. Obviously, both of these are unacceptable for Bible-believing Christians (see Exodus 20:15; Mark 10:19; Matthew 15:19, etc). Stealing and bearing false witness fail to love your neighbor as yourself (Romans 13:9). The words and ideas of another person are precisely that--their words or ideas. To fail to acknowledge their source is to give the false impression that they have originated with you. Hence, plagiarism steals from another and gives a false impression to your audience. Both of these factors should be of utmost concern to the Christian, and especially pastors and teachers whose should have the utmost respect for the sanctity of truth"

Good thoughts, Ed. I appreciate your balanced view on this subject.

For my part, I'm not unlike some of the guys you mention above: I listen to a handful of sermons during my week, and the ideas, illustrations, and even exposition that these respected brothers (who all happen to be friends) make in their sermons often find their way into my sermons as well. Sometimes I'll attribute by saying, "my friend ___ told a story of..." or, "some of the best insight I've heard about this came from ___, who said..."

On the other hand, sometimes I can't remember who said it-- or whether they were working for the same point of application, using the same biblical text, etc.! When this happens, I feel safe resting on the absence of "dishonest intention."

When Solomon said, "there is nothing new under the sun" I think he meant his words to apply to preachers as well. The fact is, very few ideas I have are orignial; so it is with most of the preaching world. We've all been shaped, influenced, and affected by the teaching and preaching of others, sometimes over a long life of faith. How do you attribute something that four different pastors had an effect on teaching you over the years? Or an idea that you remember from your seminary days, but aren't sure if it came from a class or conversation, a professor or pastor?

Preaching is a peculiar animal in that way, because it doesn't (or shouldn't) have the sort of competitive and protective spirit that much other creative/idea/information work does. And because, at least ostensibly, we are, in fact, all on the same team.

Nelson,

Thanks for dropping by.

Sam,

Sounds like we got you a bit riled up on the topic. I appreciate your passion for God and his word.

I agree with much of what you said. However, I am not ready to call it plagiarism or stealing as readily as you do (unless the pastor is claiming original ideas and lying). I would call it unwise, but plagiarism is different.

But I must confess that it is weird if your pastor used Warren's personal examples as his own. Regardless of if you feel he plagiarized, telling someone's personal examples as if they were your own would be lying (even is Warren had given you permission).

Ed,

Thanks. It is always a controversial subject but one that is a growing issue. My approach is to encourage pastors to consider a different way. Hopefully that spirit comes through.

Ed, let me back up for a minute and do what I should have done in my first post. PLease forgive me. I just want to thank you for writing this today and encouraging pastors they way you have. Your heart on the matter shows and I, for one, hope that it is of some benefit to other pastors. Thank you.

Yes, I am a little riled up on this because it is not some hypothetical situation. It is one that tore apart my church. Saw 7 deacons out of 12 resign. Saw 150 people leave the church. It hurt and still does when i think about it and it has been 2 years.

Yes, I do agree that it is weird that he used illustrations that were not of his own personal experience. But I doubt that is exclusive to just him. I could see others that user other people's sermons doing the same thing because it makes the sermon seem more authentic and real and doesnt break up the "flow" of the sermon by saying that "i heard this happened...." Also, it makes more of an impact to the hearer to believe that their pastor went through something personally. It is along the lines of the "ends justifies the means" pragmatism that is all to prevelant in the church today.

I am not sure why you stop short of calling this practice plagiarism? I hope to learn more of your perspective on this so i can understand you better.

Ray Van Neste has also written much on this topic as well:

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=23988

http://rvanneste.blogspot.com/search?q=plagiarismplagiarism.html

Ed,

Thanks for sharing this article! Very challenging to think through.

During the years I served as a pastor, I, like the others mentioned here, listened to sermons during the week, read numerous commentaries and books, scanned articles, newsletters, talked with preacher friends and church members etc. However, the starting point each week was the Bible. I started with the Scripture, seeking what "Thus saith the Lord."

After reading the Bible verses chosen for the week, I then began with the other preparation mentioned above. Did I use illustrations from them? Sure! Did I claim them as my own? Never! Did I benefit from their hours of preparation? Sure! Did I totally depend upon their preparation to be my preparation? No!

"Someone", and I can't remember who said it, but someone once said that there wasn't anything original under the sun.

That probably relates to preaching and writing. While we shouldn't copy word-for-word someone else's work, how can we possibly not draw from their wisdom and insight? If God gave them the wisdom, wouldn't we be foolish not to learn from it?

Now, as an editor, a part of my job is to verify what people say and write. Our standing rule of thumb is simply this: If it doesn't come out of your brain, then give credit to where credit is due. What we find, as people do that, that most people who are quoted are honored to be referenced and quoted. They are not angry that their work made an impact on someone else or that the writer wants to share it with others. They see the benefit of being referenced in other materials. And, they are thankful that their labored over work has found additional life than the original purpose.

Will we tolerate plagarism? NEVER! I think that would be a good rule to live by in the pulpit as well. While we may not remember where we find every thought we have, we simply cannot claim it as original with us, unless it is.

Sam,

Thanks for coming back with more... and I appreciate your passion and I wish more laypeople were as informed on these issues.

Perhaps my primary concern is that I know too many small church pastors and church planters who are not lying or stealing, but sometimes preach someone else's sermon with their permission. For that matter, I’ve met too many uneducated third world preachers who use a sermon passed on from a friend to preach since they are working in a field all day during the week.

To me, the real questions are—do they have permission and/or are they deceiving?

On to your point... maybe they have permission from the original author, but I think your valid concern is that they also have permission from the congregation. The congregation should not be misled.

---------------

To all: Off to Washington D.C. now to preach an original message at a conference. Feel free to make comments but my interaction will be limited.

Ed,
What about plagerizing sermon series titles next.

How many pastors have done the
"Confessions of a Pastor"
series done by Life Church.

I mean some new church plants did this series by young pastors.

As a young SBC pastor of only ten years, I can say that I write what I preach, and I rarely preach the same sermon twice. I don't believe in preaching someone else's sermon. I have used outlines that I found particularly helpful. Also, I have been so impacted by my mentors that I sometimes can hear them when I preach. In the same way, the ghost of Jonathan Edwards walks through the sermons of John Piper. There is nothing new under the sun.

It's about credibility and professionalism for your ministry.

In our culture, pastors have a stereotype of being lazy and unprofessional. All of us would disagree with that as a generalization, but we can all agree that many people have that view.

If you don't want that stereotype then work with excellence in everything that is done, not perfection, but excellence.

This means, don't steal someone else's thoughts and pass them off as your own. Cite the source, even if the source says, "I don't need credit."

This is sort of like saying "I went to Bosnia and was shot at by sniper fire." Well, if it didn't happen, don't say it did.

I work in the publishing industry. If I steal work, I get sued (and fired). The stakes are much higher however for a pastor whose credibility with his audience has eternal ramifications.

This is serious.

Much of this discussion seems to hinge around the environment in which the preaching is being done. If there is a perception among the congregants that their pastor studies weekly to bring them a message crafted by the leading of the Holy Spirit for them. Problem? I think in much of the Western world, that assumption comes standard. Therefore, to preach some else's sermon w/o citing them is dishonest, even if the intent wasn't there. However, if there is an understanding among the congregation to the contrary (due to a pastor's duties, etc.), using someone else's outline may be okay. Perhaps a more serious problem are those pastors who take someone else's sermon and use it completely, cited or not, without ever engaging in the Word for themselves.