Dr. Malphurs is the Senior Professor of Pastoral Ministries at Dallas Theological Seminary and a visionary with a deep desire to influence a new generation of leaders through his classroom, pulpit, consulting, and writing ministries. He is involved in a number of ministries ranging from church planting and growth to leadership development. He has pastored three churches and is the author of numerous books and articles on leadership and church ministry. Currently he is the president of the Malphurs Group and is a trainer and consultant to churches, denominations, and ministry organizations throughout North America and Europe. His research and teaching interests include church planting, church growth, and leadership development.

Aubry recently entered the dialog on multi-site churches and church planting with a helpful article worth digesting and discussing...

MULTI-SITE VERSUS CHURCH PLANTING?

(June 6, 2008) There's a new person on the block. A new kid has moved into the ministry neighborhood. It's the church multi-site movement. However, I must use the term new carefully as there likely was a multi-site movement in the first century church. An example would be the church at Corinth. In 1 Corinthians 1:2 Paul writes to the church at Corinth. Then he mentions a house church that likely was located in or near Corinth (1 Cor. 16:19-20). It would seem that in the first century there was a city church (1 Cor. 1:2) that was made up of a number of house churches as in chapter 16.

What is a Multi-site Church?
The simple definition is that a multi-site church is the same church that meets in more than one location. It could meet in several places on the same campus, another location in the same town or state, or even in another country. For example, Ed Young who pastors Fellowship Church in Grapevine, Texas, also has established two other downtown campuses in Dallas and a third in Miami, Florida. While Ed usually preaches at the Grapevine campus, the service is sent by video to the other locations as well. And what takes place at Grapevine-the programming in particular-also takes place at the other campuses. In a real sense this is church franchising, and I don't mean this in a negative way. Initially these were begun to relieve some of the mega-churches of land and facilities problems. They needed more room to expand their ministries. And what began as a solution to a land problem has become a major movement.

What is a Church Plant?
A church plant is similar to and different from a multi-site church. Like a multi-site church, they may be started by a sponsoring church. However, a difference is that unlike the multi-site church they may not be at all like the sponsoring church. Thus you are not franchising a particular style of church ministry. Another observation with exceptions is that multi-site churches consist of more of the same kinds of people. For example, a predominantly boomer church will attract boomers at its other locations. What appeals to them at one site appeals at the other.Whereas, a church plant will often attract those who are different from the people that attend the sponsoring church. They are usually a younger crowd. Perhaps the difference might be summed up this way. Starbucks would represent a multi-site approach. Whereas, Aubrey's coffee shop would be indicative of a church planting approach. If you like Starbucks coffee, then go to Starbucks. But if you want something different - that's unique - then visit Aubrey's Exotic Coffee Shop.

My Concern
While I'm all for multi-site churches as I attend one (Lake Pointe Church in Rockwall, Texas), I'm concerned that they not replace church planting. While I have no research to support my view, it would appear that a number of pastors are opting for a multi-site approach over church planting. The problem with this is that most churches best reach a younger population not through a multi-site location but by planting churches. Many of today's youth react negatively to the predominantly boomer, multi-site churches. They want to meet in smaller more intimate groups as seen in a growing number of house church plants. They want to belong before they believe. They want to check things out to see if church people are authentic: "If what you think you see (Jesus) is really what you get."

My Appeal
Instead of supporting one approach to ministry, lets do both. Let's embrace both the multi-site approach and church planting. That way we can continue to reach those who've been blessed by what many of today's churches are doing and reach out to tomorrow's generations as well. It shouldn't be as in the title to this article - "Multi-site Versus Church Planting." One must not exclude the other. Both are necessary to reach our lost and dying world.

When I did a church planting research project for Leadership Network (download it here), we did find that in some cases, churches that were once strong in church planting had moved away from such and were now focused on multi-site. On the other hand, we found some doing both (like Seacoast in Charleston, Community Christian in Naperville, and Mars Hill in Seattle, to name few).

So, let me ask, why do you think this is happening? The pastors I talked to (who had moved from church planting to multi-site) told me it produced a higher success rate when you started a site rather than a church planting.

Your thoughts?

And, feel free to post questions to Aubrey as he will be around the blog today.

Tomorrow, Aubrey Malphurs will come by the blog and talk about the impact of multi-site on church planting. He has some concerns he wrote in a recent article. I will post the article and we will start the discussion at 10a.m. Eastern. If you are interested in multi-site ministry, be sure to read the last two discussions with Geoff Surratt, multi-site author and pastor, here and here.

Here is a story we just released:

Are Evangelicals Really Universalists

NASHVILLE, Tenn., 6/27/08 - In the second major release from their U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, the Pew Forum states that "70 percent of Americans with a religious affiliation say that many religions - not just their own - can lead to eternal life." The detailed findings (available at: http://religions.pewforum.org/reports) indicate that 57 percent of those attending evangelical churches also agree that many religions can lead to eternal life. Only 36 percent chose the alternative, "My religion is the one, true faith leading to eternal life."

However, some have expressed concerns about the way the question was asked. "The Pew Forum accurately reported the question they asked and accurately reported the responses they received, but I do not think that led to an accurate portrayal of evangelicals," said Ed Stetzer, director of LifeWay Research, the research arm of LifeWay Christian Resources.

Terry Mattingly of the Scripps Howard News Service and the GetReligion.org blog wrote, "I am being a bit picky here, but I suspect that if you asked a lot of people that Pew Forum question today, they would think of the great world religions. But many Christians would think more narrowly than that. Not all. Not many, perhaps. But some. What is your religion? I'm a Baptist, a Nazarene, an Episcopalian, a Catholic. Can people outside of your religion be saved? Of course. This is not the same thing, for many, as saying that they believe that salvation is found outside faith in Jesus Christ."

"I believe the Pew study is directionally right in pointing out that a surprisingly small number of self-identified American Christians believe in the exclusivity of Christ as a means of salvation, and therefore, getting into heaven," explained Scott McConnell, associate director of LifeWay Research.

"But the way they worded their question may have had some impact; many people think of 'denomination' when they hear 'religion,' so it isn't that surprising that a Lutheran could think a Methodist would also go to heaven or a Catholic could think that a Protestant would go to heaven," said McConnell.

Stetzer cautioned, "When we define evangelicals as not just those who sit in pews but who agree with certain evangelical beliefs, we find a different picture than was widely reported in the news about the recent Pew study."

LifeWay Research has been studying the practices and beliefs of hundreds of Protestant churchgoers in a longitudinal multiyear study and recently asked questions which did not just indicate "religion" but indicated "religions other than Christianity."

In this study, which will be featured in The Shape of Faith to Come, a fall 2008 book by B&H Publishing Group Vice President Brad Waggoner, LifeWay Research asked 2,500 Protestant adults who attend church at least once a month, "How much do you agree/disagree: If a person is sincerely seeking God, he/she can obtain eternal life through religions other than Christianity."

When answering questions about "other than Christianity" rather than "other religions," the answers may change. In total, 31 percent of Protestant churchgoers agreed (strongly or somewhat) with this universalistic statement compared to Pew's 70 percent. This makes for a difference of 39 percent between the universalism in the LifeWay Research study and the Pew Study.

"LifeWay Research utilized a five-point scale, in which 28 percent of Protestant churchgoers neither agreed nor disagreed with the universalistic statement. Assuming that all the 'neither agree nor disagree' would move to the universalist side when forced to choose (a doubtful assumption), the difference is still 10 percent," Stetzer noted, pointing out that the questions were not identically worded and a direct comparison was not possible.

Forty percent of these Protestant churchgoers disagreed (strongly or somewhat) that eternal life can be obtained through religions other than Christianity. When "evangelical" is defined by beliefs (using the combination of nine evangelical definition questions from The Barna Group) rather than which church is attended, 8 out of 10 evangelicals reject this universalistic statement.

Rejection of the universalistic statement in the LifeWay Research study by disagreeing strongly or somewhat are shown in the following percentages:
• 80 percent of those who indicate evangelical beliefs
• 61 percent of born-again Christians
• 49 percent who say they attend an evangelical church
• 27 percent of those who do not indicate evangelical beliefs

The LifeWay Research study used a five-point scale and the requirement of minimal church attendance which makes direct comparisons to Pew's data difficult as they used an "either/or" question and only required affiliation. However, Stetzer explained, "There is enough of a difference in the results for me to conclude that their choice of wording likely led a number of folks away from the exclusive response."

"The Pew study accurately pointed to a growing problem. The shape of faith to come is in some ways discouraging. Christians are becoming more universalistic and lack biblical views on a host of other issues," Waggoner explained.

"The Pew research is helpful even though this question needs clarification. However, the bigger issue here is why there are so many self-identified evangelicals who sit in evangelical pews but do not evidence evangelical beliefs, particularly in regard to universalism," Stetzer said.

More information and graphics can be found at www.lifewayresearch.com.

###

What are your thoughts?

The Scripps Howard News Service published a story with the title, "Is sex outside of marriage a sin?" (The title may change in local papers.) Terry Mattingly interviewed me for the story a few days ago (after the Pew research was posted).

You can read the full story here.

Some excerpts:

It's becoming more and more dangerous for preachers to use the words "sex" and "sin" in the same sentence...

"We have to recognize that our historic positions on sexual issues are becoming incredibly distasteful to more people in this culture and especially to our media and popular culture," said Ed Stetzer, director of the Southern Baptist Convention's LifeWay Research team.

"The whole 'Hate the sin, love the sinner' thing -- people are not getting that anymore. People do not believe that we mean that."

Right now, the gay-marriage issue is making headlines. But for millions of traditional believers in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and many other faiths, this issue is linked to a question rooted in religious doctrine, not modern politics. In a spring LifeWay survey, researchers asked: "Do you believe homosexual behavior is a sin?"

The results showed a culture torn in half, with 48 percent of American adults saying that homosexual acts are sinful and 45 percent disagreeing.

Considering the margin for error, this is a virtual tie...

These numbers are evidence of great change in the religious and moral views of many Americans, yet they also point toward familiar tensions between traditionalists and progressives. The Pew Forum survey, for example, again demonstrated a reality seen in recent elections. Americans who frequently attend worship services and say that religion is very important in their lives continue to take more conservative stands on hot moral issues in public life.

What about people outside the pews? That is where another set of statistics will prove especially distressing to clergy who sincerely want to defend what Stetzer called the ancient "one man, one woman, one lifetime" doctrine of marriage.

In the LifeWay survey, 32 percent of American adults said that their decision to visit or join a congregation would be "negatively affected" if it taught that homosexual behavior is a sin. That number rose to 49 percent among the "unchurched," those who rarely or never attend worship.

The issue of homosexuality does not, of course, stand alone, said Stetzer. It's getting harder for religious leaders to maintain consistent teachings about other acts and conditions that traditional forms of religion have, for centuries, considered a sin. This affects preaching on premarital sex, divorce, cohabitation and adultery.

"Ultimately, the modern church has failed to proclaim and explain a biblical ethic of sexuality," he said. "We also need to admit that the church has failed to live out the ethic that it's claiming to be advocating. If we are going to say that we stand for the sanctity of marriage, then we -- in our churches and in our homes -- are going to have to live out the sanctity of marriage."

My research team is working on the 100 Largest and Fastest Growing church lists and we don't want to miss any churches. Finding them can be a challenge, particuarly the fastest growing.

What churches do you know of that have grown significantly in the past year (numerically or percentage wise)?

If your church has experienced significant growth in the past year or you know of a church that has, please email my team at research@top100churches.com (give us at least the church name, city, state, and pastor's name if you don't know anything else like a phone number or website address). My team will take it from there.

To motivate those of you in the know... if you are the first person to mention a church that 1) we don't already have on our list, 2) makes it to one of the top 100 churches, I'll send you a free book and thank you on the blog when they are published in Outreach Magazine comes out this fall.

Help us out! Tell us about the churches who are reaching people.

Don't miss the post I just put up about ministry to people groups, but moments ago the Pew Forum sent me their new research release. Click below for their press release. Click here for more information.

I am sitting in a coffee shop in Vail, Colorado as I write this. Around me are people who speak other languages, have different skin tones, and come from different cultures.

Last week, I took my daughter to California and we spent a few days in L.A.. The diversity was much more evident there. In many places, we were the only ones who spoke English as a first language.

Across North America, our airports, downtown streets, and even suburban malls have become a cornucopia of cultures and nationalities. Increasingly America just doesn't look much like me. However, as I enter the doors of many churches, I see mainly people who look like me. I recognize that there are strong ethnic churches and I do visit them, but I am concerned that too many churches are not engage in cross-cultural mission engagement when the opportunity is so clear.

I do not see the variety of people groups in our churches that I see in our cities--and this grieves me. I have written about this lack of ethnic leadership in my own denomination, but it is an evangelical problem. I have shared some resources on the topic here.

For the first time in recent history, more churches are being started in North America than are closing, yet this expansion of churches has made few inroads to internationals of non-Christian backgrounds living within our borders. This worries me, not only for the future of our country, but more importantly for the future of international missions. The question must be asked: If we as the church in North America desire to share the gospel to the world, how can we expect to be effective overseas when we cannot even reach the world at home?

The church has some waking up to do. The U.S. Census projects that 50% of the U.S. population will be of a race or ethnicity other than non-Hispanic white by 2050. International immigration to North America has created an exponential growth among Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and other non-Christian groups. Toronto, a city of over 6 million, is now 50% foreign-born.

If we take Jesus' command, "As the Father has sent me, I am sending you," with any seriousness, we must be willing to share the gospel with "others" who are not just like us. And these "others" do not just mean people in different economic or racial positions. It also includes those "others" who speak other languages, adhere to foreign religions, and hold cultural values that are much different from mine and yours.

I'll let the experts figure the forces behind the upsurge in immigration. I'll let the politicians argue about whether it is good or bad and what we should do about it. But, in the meantime, I will listen to Jesus and tell the good news to those peoples increasingly present around us. And, obviously, we need some hope to engage in this essential mission.

That is why I am thrilled that practitioners and experts are now speaking out for the purposes of Christ's kingdom. I came to know Phillip Connor when he worked at the North American Mission Board under my watch in the Center for Missional Research. While there, Phillip directed the peoplegroups.info project and was the project manager and stats man behind the church planting studies I conducted while at the North American Mission Board. While at the mission board, we nicknamed Phillip "Luke Skywalker" for his perseverance and sharp intellect to get things done. Phillip is smart (he is doing his Ph.D. at Princeton University in immigrant religion), but his wife Kandace is even smarter. She speaks three languages fluently while Phillip only speaks two. They are both graduates of Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary under the tutelage of Thom Wolf. Most importantly, they have real world experience working among internationals, particularly when they planted churches among South Asians, Chinese, and other people groups while living in Montreal. They continue to reach out to internationals in their new home in New Jersey.

Kandace and Phillip are releasing their first book, Who is My Neighbor? Reaching Internationals in North America for which I wrote the foreword (and part of this article is adapted from that forward). Who is My Neighbor? will not only challenge you to look beyond your own setting and give you a greater passion for internationals, but more importantly will provide you with the practical tools to go from an interest in internationals to establishing a multiplying church network. It is rare to find a book on missions so well designed and focused yet also a delight to read.

Kandace and Phillip believe, as do I, that the growing international population in our continent will not be reached through an elaborate, grandiose missions program. Instead, it requires a volunteer army of lay people, like you and me, spread all across North America committed to an incarnational ministry of proclamation and church starting, one international family and subsequently one people group at a time. Don't miss this! This book is not for the career missionary, although they could learn from it. It is for the missional Christian eager to engage across cultures. The book is only available for purchase at Phillip and Kandace's website, reachinternationals.com. So be sure to order yourself a copy, but also order one or two more to give to those people who can really use it!

Kandace and Phillip are friends. Over the past several years, we have been in the same church, worked together on many projects, and have enjoyed time together as families. Phillip and Kandace are a rare breed. They are humble. But, do not confuse humility with lack of knowledge. I count them as the most knowledgeable people I know in ministering among internationals in North America. They are friends to my family, but more importantly, they are friends to the world living in North America. You will be blessed and challenged as you read their book.

Everyone is familiar with the "mid-life crisis." For most that personal dilemma becomes a plot point in a cliche joke or romantic comedy, but for others it is a significant time of frustration and questions concerning the nature of life, identity, calling and fulfillment. What you may not be familiar with is what is being called the "quarter life crisis."

The quarterlife crisis (QLC) is most simply defined as "a period of anxiety, uncertainty and inner turmoil that often accompanies the transition to adulthood." It is commonly experienced by college graduates who, now free from the programs and support network of the university, find it difficult to find a meaningful independent life. The term, "quaterlife crisis" was made popular by Abby Wilner and Alexandra Robbins in the book, Quarterlife Crisis, the Unique Challenges of Life in your Twenties. Naturally the book struck a chord with many twenty-somethings.

Back in May when I spoke at the Michigan District of the Assemblies of God, I met Leah and Brad Leach.

As often happens when I speak at denominational meetings, I end up having lunch with "the church planters." We ended up sitting next to each other and I learned about their ministries. Brad started Church of the King five days after 9-11. Brad was a part of FutureAG, a significant blogging voice in their movement thinking through issues of change.

Leah works full time in children's ministry and has walked through and written about her own quarterlife crisis. I encouraged her to submit some of her writing to Lifeway and today one of her articles appears in Threads. There she explains why many within the younger generations who are transitioning out of "academia into the 'real world'" are running into this crisis. (If you are not already subscribed to the Threads feed, you should be.)

What I've learned is that the dynamics of today's economy, our culture's customs, and consequences of previous generational choices all add up to create a unique situation for those of us who are currently transitioning from academia to the "real world." We take jobs only to face corporate downsizing and an American economy that for the first time is not promising to be more financially successful than that of the preceding generation. As a bachelor's degree has become more expensive, it's decreased in significance and a master's is almost expected. Add to these facts the reality that many of today's quarterlifers are children of divorce, and it's easy to see why the pressures of marriage and commitment can be particularly daunting.

She has found that many are at a loss how to respond to people going through this, and she has come to anticipate the blank stares or condescension that follow mention of the quarterlife crisis. But she explains, "whether you think my feelings were valid or ridiculous, they were very real, and the feelings that I felt at that moment were only the tip of the iceberg. What followed was a mixture of feelings that would wax and wane over the next several years. Loneliness. Confusion. Uncertainty about past decisions and anxiety about future ones."

The quarterlife crisis is nothing new. Each generation, from the Fall onward, struggles with identity, calling and purpose. And the transition from college to independent adulthood is proving to be a challenge for many today. Leah encourages readers to be sensitive to the issue. "To others going through a quarterlife crisis, know that you are not alone. And for those who may know someone going through this time, perhaps you can put away your tiny violins and provide a sympathetic heart and listening ear to a younger friend."

For those of you who are working to share the gospel with younger generations, it will serve you well to familiarize yourself with this phenomenon and to look for more from Leah. Also, we will be addressing this issue in or new book, Lost and Found: The Younger Unchurched and Churche that Reach Them.

Teachable moments are important things.

When I taught at Southern, I (occasionally) attended chapel, talked to some brilliant theologians, learned from some great missiologists, and even read a few books. But, one of the more important teachable moments came in a brief conversation with Hershael York.

Hershael and I were talking one day and he told me of a practice he had with his children. Hershael told them (when they were young) that he would take them on trips at certain ages:

• When they were 10, he would take them anywhere they wanted to go in the United States.


• When they were 15, he would take them anywhere they wanted to go in the world.

And, he explained how these were pivotal times for children and time with their father was an important part of that. It was a teachable moment for me.

I stole the idea and started telling my oldest, Kristen, the same thing. I told her when she was 4 (knowing that she would never be 10).

Well, kids do grow up... and Saturday she is 10. (That sure happened fast.)

So, she picked:

• Disneyland


• Riding to the Pacific Coast Highway in a convertible, and


• Yosemite

Hershael was right: there are key moments in your children's lives when you can talk about things that matter, far away from the rush of life. Children have those teachable moments, too. They happen everyday, yes, but you can also find special times to be together and talk. And, thanks to a bunch of frequent flyer and frequent stayer points, this is a way I can spend special time with my daughters.

That's what Kristen and I are doing today-- and it is much more important than all the speaking, writing, and leading that I might otherwise do.

Anyway, if you like some pictures, you can follow the adventure on Twitter (the pic is from the Twitter feed).

So, back to the car, the sunglasses, "tweener" tunes on the CD, and another day in the park taking pictures of flowers, trees, and mountains with her new birthday camera...

Updated-- Here are a few pictures from yesterday and today (from the Twitter feed):

I missed my Friday is for Friends, so let me share a bit here.

Foursquare Church, Jack Hayford, and Glenn Burris

Today, I am with Glenn Burris and some of the Foursquare Church leadership in Los Angeles. A couple years ago, Glenn Burris and Jack Hayford asked me to enter into a coaching relationship with their movement to help them through their recent reorganization, and I was greatly blessed that they would have me to help.

For those of you who do not know the Foursquare, it is a fascinating movement with a colorful beginning. The movement was founded by Aimee Semple McPherson. Her Wikipedia article is worth a read. Jack Hayford currently leads the denomination. Christianity Today has called him "The Pentecostal Gold Standard" and they are correct. He is called "Pastor Jack" around the building.

A couple of years ago, Pastor Jack and I spent the day training their district leaders, key pastors, and national staff. I spoke in the morning and talked about how effective movements and how they grow and reach their context. Jack took the afternoon and talked about issues of the heart. By the time he was done, I was praying for a deeper walk and more evident holiness.

Glenn Burris is the general supervisor of the U.S. national church. He and I have met with different groups over the last few years as we have worked through how to focus a movement on God's agenda. I am honored to work with these great folks and will spend the day at their Los Angeles headquarters.

Adrian Warnock

Uberblogger Adrian Warnock has interviewed me on a device called a "Mac," using something called Ichat. Like all uses of the "Mac," he speaks of its superiority way too much. Adrian seems to be the Larry King of the reformed movement (or whatever the Larry King equivalent is across the pond). Most fascinating, he is a psychiatrist in the real world and an uberblogger by night. (Knowing he is a psychiatrist makes me a bit nervous answering questions).

Anyway, you can see our video interview here in four parts:
Part 1 What Does Missional Mean?

Part 2 Church Planting

Part 3 Is Missional and Apostolic the Same Thing?

Part 4 How Can We All Be Missional?

Adrian also awarded me a "warnie," which I am guessing sounds a lot more manly in Britain than it does here in the states.

Regardless, we had a great talk and I am glad to do the interview.

Michael Duduit

I have been talking to Michael Duduit recently. We did lunch and he told me about Anderson University's new graduate school of religion. Michael is moving to Anderson, SC and was packing last week when I called. Now, Anderson is not the typical place that people move. It is in the upstate of South Carolina and probably the only thing most readers know from there is the memorable Perry Noble.

Michael is the editor of Preaching Magazine and we have become friends. This week he asked me to be one of the keynote speakers at the National Preaching Conference in Tampa. I will be talking about preaching that produces life change.

Pray for Michael and Anderson University as they begin this journey to raise up God-called men and women through their new school.

Troy Gramling

It was good to catch up with Troy at the SBC. Troy interviewed me for a podcast that will be coming out here. Troy is probably most famous for his "Naked Pastor" campaign. Having met Troy, I find the whole idea a bit creepy, but I think his point was to show part of the real life of a pastor. What most people in the church never see. I greatly enjoyed dinner with Troy and his staff (who all seemed much younger than Troy and me...)

The Blog Tour

The blog tour hit two more stops last week while I was in Indianapolis at the Baptist-a-palooza called the SBC. The first stop was on Alan Hirsch's blog, then Tall Skinny Kiwi. Last week, the blog tour went from Australians to Brits to Canadians, staying focused on the Queen's commonwealth. We stopped by the blog of Darryl Dash, whose blog has been in my google reader for a while now. Then, the next stop was on the blog of Micah Fries, who has quickly becoming a leading voice for young leaders in my denomination. The other stop was at the blog of Marty Duren. Marty's new blog is called iemissional. I will post more on the blog tour later, but I do appreciate these friends letting me drop by on the blog tour.

Eric Welch, Paul Cedar, Dave Olson and the Mission American Coalition

The leaders of the Mission American Coalition are a great group. They are an evangelical partnership of sorts, helping facilitate networks where denominations can learn from each other. Such partnerships are always tricky since there are many issues where even evangelicals disagree, but the work together with grace and sensitively on these issues. So, when they wanted to talk about some ways to learn from each other, I was glad to participate.

Their annual meeting is in Minneapolis this year in partnership with the National Association of Evangelicals. If you are a denominational leader, it would be good to check it out. And, in the coming days, I will be sharing some new things in relationship to Mission America.

Richard Land

Richard and I had a great lunch a couple of weeks ago, which largely means we accomplished nothing. We were supposed to plan our SBC report, but instead we talked, gave opinions, and argued a bit. But, it was good. It led to a fascinating dialogue at the Ethics and Religions Liberty Commission booth in Indianapolis. At that booth, I tried to get Richard to come out and endorse something that would get him in trouble, but it did not work. He seems to have been around the block before on the interviews... such is life. Meet the Press is a little harder than Meet Ed Stetzer. I kept trying to say, "Let's make some news here..." but he never wanted to.

Now, some would say that Richard is the personification of what some call the Religious Right. We disagreed on some things... and even did so on the stage (in regards to engaging culture, for example). However, I think people miss Richard when all they see is the picture on T.V. He reminds me a bit of Jerry Falwell, who was not afraid of a fight. But, the Jerry I knew cared for the hurting in ways that few appreciate. The same seems ot be true for Richard.

Yes, I probably would not say some of the things he says (and I am guessing the feeling is mutual), but the presentation they did on ministry to persons with same-sex attraction two years ago was remarkable and noteworthy for its discernment and grace. And, even his concerns about the global warming crowd are driven by the (often overlooked) fact that some who call for an end to global warming really want an end to industrialization-- and industrialization (along with the ever unpopular outsourcing) is lifting much of the two-thirds world out of poverty.

So, we mixed it up a bit in our presentations (which is, I assume, why they asked me to do it).

If you have not read his book, The Divided States of America, it is a good read and worth your time.

Now, if I could just convince him on a few cultural issues and on those bowling shoes he wore on Tuesday...

Bob Smietana

Bob and I got a chance to visit at the Noshville Deli. Bob is the new religion reporter for the Tennessean, the local Nashville paper. I read his most recent book, Good Intentions, which is something like a look at economics (and other issues) from a Christian perspective. I found it very interesting and a compelling read (and, published by Moody, no less-- "the name you trust").

From the book:

Most of us turn to the Bible for decision making, but since the Bible deals in morality and value, it's difficult to apply its principles to the economic choices we make each day. However, by measuring the outcome of these choices with the use of economic theory, we can determine long-range implications and more easily evaluate them according to biblical criteria.

Interesting stuff...

Fundamentalists and Mark Dever

Just this week, the "Mark and Ed" show has passed 4000 views on Youtube.

I saw Mark in Indianapolis and we joke about becoming Internet sensations. Like that Free Hugs video... without all the hugging. Ok, it is not that big, but is interesting to me that thousands of people would watch a discussion about the gospel, the Kingdom, partnerships, etc. If you have not seen the video, you can see parts 1 and 2 here.

I bring this up because it looks like it got Mark in a little hot water with some fundamentalists. You can see the comments in the 9Marks thread where Mark posts on "separation." It's an interesting conversation and worth a read (be sure to read down into the comments).

It seems that his speaking in Chicago (with Acts 29) and in Reston (at Whiteboard) are the main issues that some have brought up. Having been one of the keynote speakers at both of those meetings, I take a unique interest in the subject.

Mark has done a good job explaining his views. In a forthcoming post, I will also explain why I speak to who asks, as long as I can clearly preach the gospel and my training will not advance a non-Chrstian agenda. For example, this week I accepted speaking engagements for the Missouri Synod Lutherans, The Assemblies of God, and my own denomination.

I share the Apostle Paul's desire and hope, that Christ will be preached, even if we disagree in some areas.

Enough for now... off to Los Angeles for the day. It's kinda' like Nashville, with a tan...

Many moons ago, I asked your help on picking out a book cover. I'd like to ask your help again.

My next book will be released at the Atlanta Catalyst Conference. I will present the data in one of the main sessions and talk about what it means as we engage emerging generations. Some of the research will be included in each of the packets and then a pre-release copy will only be available at Catalyst. The book will then be available for general release in January.

The book is called Lost and Found: The Younger Unchurched and Churches that Reach Them. We are excited about the book because there are so many saying that emerging generations are increasingly distant from the Christian faith, but often not providing solutions (with some notable exceptions). Our book is not called, Lost, and We Just Wanted to Let You Know. We look at some new research on emerging generations and then look at churches that are reaching them. I am excited about the book and think it will be a great help for those who care about reaching increasingly unchurched future generations.

Well, the publisher wants your feedback. They have two designs that they have sent me.. The first problem with the design is that they lack the name of my co-authors, Richie Stanley and Jason Hayes. However, the publisher has rightly repented for this omission but still wanted your feedback and time is short. They have a concept meeting tomorrow.

So, if you don't mind, take a look at these two versions and give me your feedback. Option 1 is called "yellow" and option 2 is called "white." At the end of the thread, I will jump in with my opinion (and I do have one). However, I hated the design of Comeback Churches, and it ended up winning some sort of graphics award, so I have no talent at this.

So, your help is solicited!

Option 1: "yellow"


Option 2: "white"

I have attended the SBC each year since I started working for the convention in 1998. Being reared nominally Roman Catholic just outside New York City, I am not the normal attendee or the normal Southern Baptist.

Prior to 1998, as a church planter in the northeastern US, I could not afford to come and felt like an SBC outsider most days. When I started teaching at Southern Seminary, I started attending. As a (former) contemporary church pastor, I felt much like an alien would feel when landing on a new planet. I heard some of the preachers speaking against contemporary churches, stating that sitting on stools when you preach is wrong, and not meeting on Sunday nights meant you didn't love Jesus enough. I was not just an alien, it sounded like I was an unwelcome alien. I was half scared and half angry. But, in just a decade, things have changed dramatically.

For example, I talked with Hayes Wicker in Inianapolis and we discussed pastor's conferences of old. He reminded me how he spoke with every speaker for the 2007 Pastor's Conference to be sure there would have no "drive-bys" on fellow SBC pastors. I am so glad he did such a thing -- but I also wish it was not needed. And, I believe it will be less needed in the years to come.

This year, we did not hear swipes at Rick Warren, Calvinists, the emerging church, or contemporary music. Instead, we heard Jimmy Draper tell us we were in "free fall," Johnny Hunt said we were dying, and Al Gilbert pointed to our need for appropriate change. The real dangers we face and our real hope became very clear. It was a very different year for us.

Let me give some of my feedback on the meeting this year.

The Spirit of the Meeting

I was surprised at the sweet spirit of the meeting. It appears that the reality of the our denominational trends has caused Southern Baptists to pause and reflect rather than fuss and fight. It started at the Pastors' Conference when Johnny Hunt spoke that he had never been a part of anything that was dying and was not about to start now. Jay Strack and others added to the call. Al Gilbert explained that the "doctor's diagnosis" must stir us toward change. And, with many other preachers, words were received with hearts ready to charge forward.

The Baptist Press article title of Gilbert's sermon may be a good summary of this year's convention: "Death check' could stir SBC toward renewal." Indeed.

I have said before and will say it again here: "People never change until the pain of staying the same grows greater than the pain of change. I think the pain of staying the same is getting to become a reality and now people are saying 'We're going to change." That tipping point has arrived. And I observe that our leadership and convention are calling for change to occur. I outlined some of my thoughts here as to what I believe are some priorities for us moving forward.

It should encourage all of us that when the alarm bell sounded that the response has been overwhelmingly for a Great Commission Resurgence. I am encouraged that we are responding to the call that the nation and world's population is in eternal jeopardy and we can be in the midst of God's plan of redemption. Such a call is what gave birth to and united our Convention 163 years ago.

When we're not seeing people come to Christ and being baptized, something stirs in our hearts and it hurts. A tone like that gives me hope.

Newly elected SBC president Johnny M. Hunt believes this year's annual meeting has helped our churches to see things as they really are. "I think this is kind of an alarmed setting ... where we see our ship sinking. We're declining," Hunt said. But at the point of decline, more Southern Baptists are expressing optimism and sense the denomination stepping up to face the challenge. I came away encouraged by what I heard in Indy and even how it was covered by the press.

I believe that we are ready to continue in the doctrine outlined by our Baptist Faith & Message. I believe that Article XIV is of particular importance these days. It speaks of our cooperation with one another and others with whom we can work in "loyalty to Christ and His Word as revealed in the New Testament." A decade ago, there seemed to be unwritten rules of who could have a say. With the help of men like Jimmy Draper, Frank Page, and many others, our convention will enjoy a wider representation in our leadership. Where a decade ago, it seemed that anyone different was suspect - now we are seeing people reach out and involve people more broadly.

Who won?

I think Southern Baptists won. Though the meeting was disturbingly small and many young leaders were absent, there was something else that was absent: anger and petty fighting. And let's face it - many were expecting a 3-ring circus with so many running for president. But, we behaved ourselves, worked through the process and have returned home unscathed.

Johnny Hunt won the presidency. But, he won, I believe, because he called for a focus on the nations, the next generation, and on unity.

Some will hail Hunt's win as the continuation of our current leadership's dedication to raising the next generation of church leaders and "white hot" evangelism. Others will cry foul and say we are blindly trusting in "megachurchism" as the answer to all our ills. I would observe that FBC Woodstock is big for a reason - its pastor loves to teach his people to share Christ by being excited to share the Gospel every chance he gets. No matter whom you voted for this week, Johnny won and I believe he is willing to lead all of us to be more passionate in our sharing, more vigorous in our planting, and more loving in our service to a lost world.

And, Southern Baptists will win when led in that direction.

What surprised me?

Resolutions
Painfully long statements about what we are for, against, who we want to thank and reject seem to be like our own version of the Olympics each year. Without commenting on any specific resolutions, I would simply say that I am pleasantly surprised to know that we are moving away from the need to be tell everyone what we think about everything.

Let me also add that I am very pleased that the resolution on regenerate church membership passed. I am a bit perplexed as to why this was even controversial, but I am glad we passed it. Now, we just have to live it.

Desire for More Methodological Diversity

So many I spoke with desire to reach out to churches of different ministry paradigms. That is good news. Now, my only hope is that it is not too late.

Actually, that is not right. It is too late for many. We have preached out a whole generation of contemporary church pastors and they won't return. However, there is hope to connect with some who are still open and willing. My time with Troy Gramling, pastor of Flamingo Road Church (with over 7,000 in attendance each week) encouraged me that such is possible. And the scores of men planting culturally relevant churches (contemporary, urban, emerging, etc.) and many more seeking to revitalize plateaued churches give me hope for a future of biblically sound and missiologically diverse SBC congregations in North America. We will always be a convention of primarily traditional churches, and I am so thankful for them, but I am encouraged that there may be room at the table for other biblically faithful expressions of church and ministry.

The Future

David Dockery, who did a great job preaching at the SBC, has identified 7 streams of Southern Baptists. Trevin Wax listed the seven types as:

• Fundamentalists: hard-lined people who often have more in common with "independent" Baptists than with the SBC heritage.
• Revivalists: true heirs of the Sandy Creek tradition, including their suspicion of education.
• Traditionalists: heirs of the Sandy Creek theology, including the strong commitment to evangelism and revivalism, but affirming of education.
• Orthodox Evangelicals: an irenic group that looked to Carl F. H. Henry and Billy Graham as models. This group wanted a theological course correction, a commitment to the full truthfulness of the Bible, serious intellectual and cultural engagement, while interacting with all who would claim to great orthodox Christian tradition.
• Calvinists: a group that wanted to reclaim aspects of the "Charleston" theological tradition. They have much in common with the "Evangelical" group above. Sub-groups include "Nine Marks," "Sovereign Grace," "Founders," and others. Most among this group no longer tend toward isolation as in years past.
• Contemporary church practitioners: a group of pastors who wanted to find new ways to connect with the culture, resulting in new models for doing church, including "Willow Creek Models," "Saddleback Models," "Missional," and even some "emergent church types."
• Culture Warriors: another group of conservatives who desire to engage the issues of culture and society. This group includes a variety of approaches including "church over culture," "church transforming culture," as well as "church and culture / social justice types."

Within this spectrum, some say we are unalterably headed toward oblivion and others want to say we are just fine. I would reiterate that without change, our course over the last 50 years does not look positive. I pray that our future will be filled with a continued tone of gospel-focused, biblically sound, properly relevant, missional engagement both here and abroad so that all facets of our tribe can fulfill our ambassadorial role for Christ. Through the challenging days of the Conservative Resurgence, we came to agree in the inerrancy of scripture. Now we should rely fully in its sufficiency for a Great Commission Resurgence.

When someone wins, many people assume that someone else lost. But I believe that logic does not hold in a denominational context. Some say the "establishment" lost. Others say it won.

However, even the term "the establishment" is an odd one and no longer particularly useful. Am I the establishment because I release the denominational statistics? What about seminary presidents, state execs, mega-church pastors. I would say that there is no longer correct to say "the establishment." And, that may be difficult for those who want to be THE establishment.

So, I don't think it helpful to trumpet who won and who lost. Instead, I think we talk about the future. And, that is a future we need to head into together.

I hope we can all see the importance of all of these groups "singing" together in the choir of leadership rather than demanding the need to be the soloist. If only three of Dockery's seven are allowed to sing, the music will continue to dim. I, for one, would like to see a robust choir singing of God's plan for the nations. That is what our "one sacred hope" should be about-- conservative Southern Baptists cooperating across tertiary differences because we can reach the nations better together than we can apart.

I am not naive on the issue of cooperation. Some will say, "let's just cooperate and not worry about theology." Five years ago I wrote my first nationally published article to disagree with that notion. In it I asked, "Can We Do Missions Without Doing Doctrine?" And, the answer, was "no."

Today, I would ask the same, but also add, "Can we do missions now the have agreed on our doctrine?" In last year's SBC sermon I said:

[I]f we have to agree on everything, our mission will amount to nothing. Wasn't the promise of the conservative resurgence that we would get to the point that we agree on enough that we can now reach the world for Christ? When will that come? I'm ready. Are you?

It felt that this year the SBC said, "Yes, we're ready."

Conclusion

What do we do now? I guess each person would have their own desire so let me give my own opinion. What I want is no different from what I said preaching at last year's SBC:
You can read the SBCLife version here, the full version, and watch a video snippet here, but let me close with these words (excerpted from the SBCLife version):

Luke records [in Acts 16], After he had seen the vision, we immediately made efforts to set out for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to evangelize them. Could we leave this Convention with a passion for mission? Could we leave this Convention with a vision for the people of our community? After we hear the cry, "Come over and help us," can we cry out like Isaiah, "Here I am, Lord, send me"?

God help us that we might be focused on His mission for His purposes, and that His name and His fame might become more widely known.

Feel free to post in the comment section. However, I will be out on vacation for the next week and won't be able to respond.

---------------

More resources:

Hear Al Mohler and I discuss the decline here.

Other analysis and commentary from my seminary (SEBTS):

• Danny Akin


• Nathan Finn

LifeWay Research (LWR) recently released research on the issue of homosexuality. I will share it in two parts. This is the first and we released it in early June. The second part was released in Indianapolis on Tuesday-- that will be part of a forthcoming post.

Lifeway recently conducted a survey that focused on Americans' view of homosexuality. The results present our churches with a serious cultural challenge. "A telephone survey of 1,201 American adults, conducted in April 2008, revealed that 48 percent of all Americans believe homosexual behavior is sinful, while 45 percent believe it is not sinful, almost a statistical tie when considering the margin of error." The country seems to divided on the issue, but the result is an impact on who may be unwilling to give you and your church a hearing.

"Thirty-two percent of Americans - almost one in three - said their decision to visit or join a church would be negatively affected if that congregation taught homosexual behavior is sinful." This means that about a third of the people we are seeking to share the gospel may be unwilling to give our message a chance based on our theological convictions. The challenge will be to demonstrate both compassion and truth; to love unconditionally while pointing to the life transformation that God offers to all who believe. This requires a robust theology, and a compassionate heart.

Check out the article from Lifeway and be prepared to engage this issue in your city with love for the lost that compels you to speak and practice the truth for their good and God's glory.

The cultural trajectory is toward greater acceptance of homosexuality. Recent books like unChristian, They Like Jesus but not the Church, and my own forthcoming Lost and Found: The Younger Unchurched and Churches that Reach Them have all pointed to this challenge among younger generations. Simply put, the younger you are, the more accepting you are of homosexuality.

It is an important issue and Christians will need to walk a difficult line-- to speak the truth, but also to do so in love.

(Just a reminder, the blog is still undergoing some updates to the look and design...)

Well, I am back in my room after a long Tuesday.

I have been Twittering, which has been received well by many people following here at the convention. However, it seems I am "over-twittering" to those of you who are not here. So, less of that tomorrow.

It seems that my blog was quoted in some surprising places, showing up in the USA Today and other papers this morning. And, as I mentioned earlier, the Associated Press tells me they are following my Twitter feed. I will have to be on my best behavior!

Many have asked me what I think of today's SBC meeting. Let me tell you. I am encouraged. If you are at the meeting, you heard several things:

1. We are struggling and people are now seeing that reality.
2. The answer is not more fighting, but a clearer focus on the gospel.
3. The divisions are hurting and not helping.
4. Younger generations need to be reclaimed.

My friend Ted Traylor has been on the blog. He gave the tremendous nominating speech for new SBC President Johnny Hunt.

He said Johnny would focus on:

1. The nations (God's global mission)
2. The next generation (young pastors and leaders)
3. Uniting the convention.

I've talked to Johnny and have heard his heart and his passion (and was glad to have his permission to share the first official news of his candidacy here on the blog). I believe he will do well and plan to offer him every help I can.

Over dinner tonight, Troy Gramling asked me tonight if I was encouraged. And, I realized that I am-- more than I have been in a while. There is much work to do, but I believe we are a step closer today.

I believe that the convention is speaking loudly and many are listening.

Let me remind you what I wrote earlier at the blog. Since the newspapers only quoted a small part, I will share it with you again:

For now, Southern Baptists are a denomination in decline. Some of you were born into an SBC church; others of us chose it of our own accord. Either way, it is dear to us all. Our responsibility before God is, then, to urgently consider how we should respond. Yes, most of our response should be personal and lived out in our local churches--this is a local church issue. But if we are choosing to partner in this network of churches, and the network is faltering, it will also take some joint action. As such, I offer a few suggestions. We've heard unfamiliar rumblings the last few years. Concerned voices have warned of a day which has now arrived.

Three issues rise to the top.

First, we have to deal with the continued loss of SBC leaders. As we have recently reported in Facts & Trends, we have witnessed a serious (and increasing) depopulation of young leaders at our convention. Also, ethnic leadership remains absent after decades of ethnic change in America. Vacant seats still exist at the SBC table for the ethnic and generational diversity that matches the America we are attempting to reach. The departure by the future leaders of our convention has led to fewer church plants, missionaries, and energetic pastors to lead our faltering churches. We must retain these leaders not because we need them for our churches. We need them to reach the lost whom our churches have yet to touched.

A second issue is the infighting which defines so much of the SBC--its meetings, its churches, and its blogs. It is public knowledge that we do not always settle our differences amicably. The national caricature once again colors many local scenes where First, Second, and even Third Baptist Churches exist in one town because of past infighting. Satan has used our incessant bickering over non-essentials to promote his last great mission on earth--to keep lost people lost.

The communities in which we live simply do not want to hear what we have to say when we can speak kindly to one another. If the focus of every SBC meeting is a new controversy to be debated, new parameters to be narrowed, and new issues to be fought, the trend toward decline will only accelerate.

The third, and most important, issue is our loss of focus on the Gospel. I find it difficult to even say such a thing, but, I believe it to be true. We must recover a gospel centrality and cooperate in proclaiming that gospel locally and globally. David Dockery and Timothy George pointed the way with their helpful booklet, Building Bridges, in last year's SBC messenger's packet. They called for a unity around the Gospel, and the time grows increasingly urgent.

We made good steps toward addressing these issues today.

Tomorrow, I am signing books at the LifeWay store. Since only 4 people showed up for my book signing on Monday, I am hoping for a groundswell of 9 people. (I am signing next to Gary Chapman (of Five Love Languages fame), so to all of my friends I will tell you that my love language is you buying a book and coming to see me at 10a.m. tomorrow.)

The book blog tour came from Australia to England to Indy today. It stopped at the SBC on the blog of Micah Fries. So, with press like that, we expect big things tomorrow! Remember, 9 people at the book signing. At least.

At noon, I will be simultaneously at the WMU booth (doing a meet and greet for our new book) and attending the SEBTS luncheon at the invite of Danny Akin. Don't ask how... just trust me.

Finally, I will be on the Albert Mohler show tomorrow at 4p.m.

See you tomorrow.

Monday Night Update:

It was a long, but good day at the SBC.

I will be twittering and potentially live-blogging some of the major actions of the SBC tomorrow. Be sure to check back here for details.

And look, if you are not following the action on Twitter, you missed these photos:

Frank Cox, James Merritt, and Tim Dowdy admiring LifeWay Research Insights.

Avery Willis wearing a $4 calculator watch from the 80s.

Bill Wagner enthusiastically endorsing my co-authored new book.

And, finally, the crowd at my book signing. It's O.K. everyone, one at a time, single file please.

And you don't have to sign up to follow all the action on Twitter. Just bookmark and check twitter.com/edstetzer.

Interviews Tomorrow
I have a number of interviews happening tomorrow you may want to be aware of:

The Albert Mohler Show

American Family Radio with Allie Martin

Shorter College, my college Alma Mater, is doing a profile

Chad Bresson and the PATH

Ashley Clayton for the It's a New Day emphasis

Buzz
This year's convention is getting a lot of attention in the press and highlights many of the hot issues and concerns we face in 2008. I have listed a few:
The Ledger (FL),

The Tennessean (TN),

The Dallas News (TX),

The Courier Journal (KY)

for some of the coverage.

Sunday night:
Lots of interesting things at this year's Southern Baptist Convention. I have arrived, missed the meetings, met some friends, and am calling it a night.

First, if you want to follow along, you can follow me on Twitter. Since there will be much fried chicken, large amounts of polyester, and some great preaching, it might be fun to follow on Twitter. I will not be live blogging (too much work and I actually have to attend the meetings if I do that).

At (or soon after) the SBC, you should see a brand new look to the blog thanks to the design work of Tim Challies, who in addition to being an uberblogger, is a blog designer. I am impressed with his work and appreciate his help. Feel free to give your thoughts on the new look and I will talk about it more later. (If you see the Nashville skyline, it is not yet updated.)

You should be able to see the Twitter updates on the blog as well. And, thanks to the new Blackberry Curve, there will be pictures.

Second, Richard Land and I will be at the ERLC booth discussion some recently released research on homosexuality, politics, the economy, global warming, and other social issues. We will do live presentations Monday and Tuesday at 1p.m. at the ERLC booth. We had lunch on Thursday to get ready, but ended up talking about everything but our booth presentation. So, it will be live and unedited. With both Richard and I giving our opinions, all that air might just cause some global warming right there on the spot. Let the talking begin and you won't want to miss it.

Third, I will keynote the Woman's Missionary Union Monday night. I know, I know, it might be a sign of the apocalypse that I am keynoting the WMU meeting, but I am very excited about it. Women are usually the backbone of any church and if they get a missional passion, amazing things can happen. I am honored that they asked me to preach at their meeting. That is Monday night.

Fourth, I will be doing a couple of interviews while I am there. One is with Micah Fries and it is part of our blog tour. Also, the good folks at On-Mission Magazine will be interviewing Philip Nation and I as well.

Unlike the past two years, Chad Bresson from the Path radio has not asked me to interview me. I am deeply hurt by that. But, since he uses Google Blog Alert, this might draw him here to my blog like a moth to the flame... and my pathetic attempt to get an interview might be met. For that matter, I think Jerry Johnson should also interview me at the Criswell College booth. Sigh.

Fifth, I will be at the LifeWay Research booth more than I will be anywhere. If you come by, you can sign up for a new research subscription and get a copy of Thom and Sam Rainer's new book, Essential Church. The only way you can get this pre-release copy of the Rainer's new book is at the SBC and by signing up for a subscription to the LifeWay Research Insights newsletter.

Sixth, the actual convention meeting should be interesting. The Dallas Morning News has a well written story that gives some of the situation. Bart Barber nails it when he says we are "at a crossroads." Johnny Hunt quoted the article in his message and, I am told, quoted me, but I have no idea if it was good or bad.

It will be interesting to see what path we will take. I have provided my commentary on what ails and some cures, but we will see what agenda takes the presidency. And, no, I will not be making an endorsement beyond let's unite around our faith statement, missions, and cooperation. (For my full thoughts, read or listen to my charge to last year's SBC meeting.)

I consider Avery Willis a friend, I have preached in Frank Cox's church, Johnny Hunt has asked me to speak for him at his conference, I met Les Puryear at the IMB but don't know him well, and I have known and admired Bill Wagner's church planting work for years. I believe all of these men are of good character, love Jesus, and have a passion for be SBC. The only person I don't know is Wiley Drake. They are good men and I am glad there are so many runnning. I believe it is a sign of health and not weakness.

Seventh, I am looking forward to some off schedule meetings. Troy Gramling from Flamingo Road asked to visit and we are doing dinner. Also, will be spending some time with Avery Willis to talk about a new missiology book and SBC life. It will be good to get a little time with Frank Page, who has made an impact on the SBC in many good and positive ways (though we did both chuckle we mixed it up in a recent newspaper story).

So, it is off to Indy and the SBC. Warm up the Gaither tunes... we are on our way!

Next update: tomorrow night... or on Twitter.

As I wrote yesterday, I recently penned questions and cautions regarding the multi-site movement in my most recent column at Outreach Magazine. (Please read the full article from yesterday before proceeding or the comments won't make much sense.)

Geoff Surratt, who co-wrote The Muiltisite Church Revolution, wrote me a gracious letter in response to the article, kindly differing with some of my conclusions. I asked and received his permission to post it here. Geoff has also agreed to dialog a bit in the comment thread below.

Here is his letter:

Dear Dr. Stetzer, I finally got a chance to read your column in the May/June edition of Outreach (I had lost my copy) and wanted to give you some feedback. I am a coauthor of The Multi-site Church Revolution (along with Dr. Warren Bird and Greg Ligon) and the Pastor of Ministries at Seacoast Church, a multi-site church based in Charleston, South Carolina. We met very briefly at a conference in Florida and I have enjoyed your writing for some time. Breaking the Missional Code is a must read for all of our campus pastors. While I understand that your role in this column is to take the contrarian role, there were several of your arguments that I struggled with. The first was the statement, "Consider the fact that there are few multi-site churches in Europe. Will a great speaker and powerful music appeal to a truly post-Christian culture?" Here are my challenges:

1. You seem to indicate that if European's aren't embracing a multi-site model we should be wary of using it in the US. When Seacoast first began exploring multi-site in 2002 we could find very few models in North America; six year later there are thousands of multi-site churches across America. It is possible that this is a model that will move from the US to Europe and in five years there may be multi-site churches all over Europe.

2. When I had the opportunity to spend some time at Leadership Network's first European Church Planters Leadership Community last spring it seemed that the most successful church planting models all utilized some form of mid-size groups or clusters. Several clusters of small groups would fall under the umbrella of one church. When one church lost their building for two years they continued to grow as they added clusters across the region. When these churches spoke of church planting, what they were actually doing was planting new clusters under the umbrella of one church. This sounds like multi-site done at a micro level and one with huge implications for all multi-site churches reaching out in a post-modern world.

3. The second part of your statement seems to be questioning the whole attractional model rather than multi-site. I don't believe that multi-site and attractional are necessarily synonymous. Bob Hyatt at Evergreen Community in Portland, Oregon is outspoken in his opposition to the attractional model AND he is going multi-site.

4. As to the appeal of the attractional model in post-modern Europe, I have no idea if it works. I do know that when I visited London last fall Hillsongs London located in the trendy West End was packed with over 1000 20-somethings at their brand new 12:45 service and that their Paris campus was experiencing exploding growth as well. No one is more committed to the attractional model than Hillsongs and I would think that London and Paris are at the epicenter of the post-modernism.

My next challenge was this assertion: "Despite a church's best intentions at new sites, sometimes certain pastoral duties get lost...I know that those duties are supposed to be the job of the campus pastor, but we also know it often does not happen-people come for the show and don't connect with the community."

1. I'm curious to know what your evidence is for this statement; how do we know that pastoral care is not happening in multi-site churches? I would argue that pastoral care is a higher value at our campuses than at a traditional church. Our campus pastors do not spend hours writing weekly homilies to be delivered for 30 minutes on a Sunday and instead focus all of their attention on seeing that the sick are prayed for, watching over the flock, and breaking bread with the beloved.

2. Later in the same paragraph you say, "I hope it keeps you up at night, wrestling with ways to build community in a system that can so easily discourage it." I don't understand how opening multiple, smaller locations with more localized pastoral oversight discourages building community.

3. The statement "come for the show" again seems to be aimed at the attractional model rather than multi-site. Multi-site churches who use video teaching may be categorized as attractional, but I have some questions about that generalization as well. I'll save that for another time as this email is turning into an epistle.

My final challenge is with this statement: "Perhaps my biggest concern with the multi-site paradigm is that it may inadvertently lead to a diminished pool of biblical leaders."

1. I assume you are equating multi-site with video teaching. While many of the prominent multi-site churches use video teaching there also many multi-site churches who use in-person teaching.

2. We have seen the exact opposite effect since we have opened multiple campuses; rather than a diminished pool of biblical leaders we now have an ocean of biblical leaders. Every site we open creates multiple opportunities for emerging leaders to step up to the plate. I had lunch today with a young man at one of our sites who has been on our youth staff for several years, but now feels a desire to move into a larger role. In a traditional church he would have to leave and plant a church because there would be few if any other opportunities for leadership within our church. Because we are a large, multi-site church we were able to look at a wide range of leadership opportunities from department leader to campus pastor to church planter. He is a biblical leader that is being groomed for big things down the road rather than put out on his own to sink or swim.

3. We have many biblical leaders who do not have the gift of teaching. It is surprising to me that somehow biblical leadership and the ability to stand up and talk for 30 minutes on a Sunday somehow have become equated. It is also surprising that a 30 minute homily is seen as the primary tool to speak into the lives of a congregation. In our campuses our campus pastors lead and teach in dozens of ways every day; the only thing they don't do is teach for 30 minutes most Sundays.

4. We have also found multi-site to be a great way to prepare church planters. Naeem Fazal, who now pastors Mosaic Church in Charlotte, was our first campus pastor. It was a great leadership incubator and Naeem now ministers to almost 1000 20-somethings every weekend. He is one of many biblical leaders who we have had the opportunity to develop through the multi-site ministry.

I apologize for the length of this email but I wanted to share my viewpoint from the frontlines of the multi-site revolution. (Cheap plug for the book) Thanks for lending an ear.

Geoff Surratt | Seacoast Church
Pastor of Ministries
w. www.seacoast.org
b. www.geoffsurratt.com

Here is my response to Geoff to kick off the discussion.

As you could tell, Geoff, I mainly wrote about the challenges of multi-site, and I think that in many high profile multi-site churches, I would stand by them. But, I would say that Seacoast, along with North Coast and others, is trying a different way. Do you think you have been able to overcome the challenges inherent in the system?

Or, let me put it this way, at the end of my article I said,

I am not anti-multi-site, but I am anti-consumerism. Church is not about being the best purveyor of religious "goods and services." And if multi-site thrives by appealing to the "come and see" mentality that is so prevalent in American evangelicalism, we will all regret it.

One writer recently wrote about his franchised church--calling it "McChurch--I'm loving it."

Well...

I think I will love it more if reproduction is the goal--reproducing believers, ministries, groups and churches. I would love it more if we all worked harder at producing disciples and leaders, and not spectators. And, if you are going multi-site, make sure you stay focused on the mission and its multiplication.

Tell me... how does Seacoast live that?

Yesterday, the Compelled By Love "trans-continental" blog tour started at Alan Hirsch's blog, The Forgotten Ways. (Alan is Australian, which explains why he calls us his "mates" over my objections.) Today, we are off to England. Actually, I am not sure where it is in Great Britain, but I do know that it is the blog home of Andrew Jones, or as he is better known, Tall Skinny Kiwi. Go to those blogs for more, or join in the dialogue about multisite here.

Below is an article I wrote for Outreach Magazine. Outreach has asked me to present an "opinionated" voice in my column-- to bring, I hope, a thoughtful and probing approach to the issues addressed. (This month, my subtly-titled article is called "Jerk Free Evangelism.")

I think that every movement needs thoughtful reflection. So, I listed some of my questions in the article (which you can see below). Now, to be transparent, I preach at a multi-venue church every week, so I would not consider myself "anti-," but I do like to think through the consequences, intended and unintended, of new approaches to church. You can see my thoughts below. Feel free to comment... I would like to hear your thoughts.

Geoff Surratt, who co-wrote The Muiltisite Church Revolution, wrote me a great letter in response to the article, kindly differing with some of my conclusions. If you come to the blog Friday, I will post that letter and Geoff and I will dialogue a bit about it here at the blog.

Questions for McChurch

The multi-site argument goes something like this:

If I open a new coffee shop on your side of town, it may take years before people figure out I'm there. Even then, they may never check out my lattes because they already get their coffee at a place called Buckstops.

On the other hand, if Buckstops opens a new shop, almost immediately hundreds of people will become regulars. Why? They already know the Buckstops brand.

Many congregations are moving to a multi-site strategy for this exact reason: a church plant may take years to get a footing, but an extension site of an established church will grow immediately. Instead of starting with 20 attendees, they may start with hundreds. (When Andy Stanley started the Browns Bridge Campus of North Point, thousands showed up the first day!)

Limitations to the Attractional Model

But is it all good? Since my column is to take a contrarian tone (yes, it is in my contract to be the Andy Rooney of each issue), let me share my concern that the attractional basis of multisite ministry also has some dangers.

In an increasingly unchurched culture, even the best worship and highest quality projection can lose its attraction. For example, there are few multi-site churches in Europe. Will a great speaker and powerful music appeal to a truly post-Christian culture? For some, maybe. But the popularity of YouTube and proliferation of amateur podcasts show a whole generation emerging that is less concerned with polish and more concerned with authenticity and accessibility.

I'm not suggesting we employ a strategy like the one I recently saw on a sign outside a church: "No coffee. No doughnuts. Just the Bible. Come and get it." I'm enthused about new methods and technologies to reach people for Jesus.

But as we rush into multi-site, we should pause long enough to consider at least these three things --

Today, we started a blog tour for Compelled by Love: The Most Excellent Way to Missional Living, my new book with Philip Nation. Our first stop: The Forgotten Ways blog with my friend Alan Hirsch.

More soon (once the blog is working better). Be sure to drop by Alan's blog in the meantime!

We are making some changes to the look of the blog. Please pardon our mess as we move things around the site. Regular posting till resume again soon...

It is exciting to see God continuing to raise up new ideas to reach the world through church planting.

I was in Richmond recently and Jerry Rankin and I talked a bit about Table 71. It is an odd name, but it has a great purpose.

From the website:

"Table 71" is a loose association of Christian organizations committed to working together in partnership among the remaining unreached people groups in the world in order to help:

• Evangelize
• Make disciples
• Begin and nurture indigenous church planting movements

How was Table 71 established?
In God's providence, a group of ministry leaders were a part of the Strategy Sessions at the Billy Graham Conference on Evangelism in Amsterdam in the fall of 2000. As they strategized about how to reach Unreached People Groups, they asked one another what they could do to help finish reaching all the remaining Unreached People Groups. In the course of their conversations, they realized that they could achieve some goals more effectively by working together more closely. They agreed to begin working to that end immediately.

What is the significance of the name "Table 71?"
There were over 100 tables at the Strategy Sessions at Amsterdam 2000. The table where the partners had their original discussions was numbered, "71." It became the "Table 71" group and the name stuck.

I appreciate the fact that several mission organizations are working together to focus on hard people in hard places.