J. Lee Grady, editor of Charisma magazine, is often a voice of reasoned critique when his movement needs some correction. (You have seen me cite him before, click here.). This is true of him once again, and this recent article is a must read. But before I share a bit from Grady's article, let me give you a little background just in case you haven't heard of the Lakeland revival and the surrounding controversy.
On April 3, 2008 Canadian evangelist Todd Bentley was invited to speak to the Ignited Church of Lakeland, FL. Though he was only scheduled to be there for 5 days, he remained for 3 months during what he considered to be the biggest pentecostal revival since the Azusa Street revival. To put it mildly, the "Lakeland revival" has been controversial. Claims of people being raised from the dead? Violent healing? Now it appears Bentley is stepping down after filing for separation from his wife and admitting to an inappropriate relationship with another woman. Grady asks some hard questions in his article.
Why did so many people flock to Lakeland from around the world to rally behind an evangelist who had serious credibility issues from the beginning?
To put it bluntly, we're just plain gullible...A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley's news hit the fan. He said to me: "I'm now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment."
Why did a group of respected ministers lay hands on Bentley on June 23 and publicly ordain him? Did they know of his personal problems?
...No one in ministry today should be out on their own, living in isolation without checks, balances and wise counsel. It was commendable that [C. Peter] Wagner reached out to Bentley and that Bentley acknowledged his need for spiritual fathers by agreeing to submit to the process. The question remains, however, whether it was wise to commend Bentley during a televised commissioning service that at times seemed more like a king's coronation.
In hindsight, we can all see that it would have been better to take Bentley into a back room and talk about his personal issues.
...I trust that Wagner, Ahn, Johnson and Arnott didn't know of Bentley's problems before they ordained him. ... But I believe that they, along with Bentley and the owners of God TV, owe the body of Christ a forthright, public apology for thrusting Bentley's ministry into the spotlight prematurely. (Perhaps such an apology should be aired on God TV.)
Grady cites C. Peter Wagner. If you have been reading the blog, you will remember two recent posts on apostles, here and here that mention Wagner. In both cases, I shared a bit about Wagner so the timing of my post and the timing of this incident prompted this blog entry.
Well, Wagner recently brought what they call "apostolic covering" to Bentley. During a publicized gathering on June 23rd Wagner explained what this covering ceremony was all about (youtube). He said, "This is a ceremony celebrating the formal apostolic alignment of Todd Bentley." He explains that alignment is a kind of adjustment, or putting things in order. Bentley was asked if he recognized the apostolic authority of the apostles who were present, and when he did Wagner says that this will be a formal "commissioning" equivalent to offering the the right hand of fellowship as the apostles did to Paul in Jerusalem.
Wagner continued by proclaiming,
This commissioning represents a powerful spiritual transaction taking place in the invisible world. With this in mind, I take the apostolic authority that God has given me and I decree to Todd Bentley:
- Your power will increase.
- Your authority will increase.
- Your favor will increase.
- Your influence will increase.
- Your revelation will increase.
I also decree that:
- A new supernatural strength will flow through this ministry.
- A new life force will penetrate this move of God.
- A government will be established to set things in their proper order.
- God will pour out a higher level of discernment to distinguish truth from error.
- New relationships will surface to open gates for the future.
In his article, Grady also points out that Bentley's theology should have been seriously investigated when Bentley connected with the "healing angel" of William Branham. (See the picture below for the "healing angel.") Yet, Bentley was never called on this bizarre connection.
While teaching at Southern, I served a church in the same town where Branham founded a church. Branham was once a well known (perhaps the best known) Pentecostal healing evangelist... at least until he went astray.
A little history may be helpful:
Branham rejected the doctrine of the Trinity and in fact claimed the doctrine was of the devil. Consequently he believed that anyone baptized into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit needed to be re-baptized. He predicted that 1977 would usher in the new millennium, and he believed denominationalism is the mark of the beast. Branham also believed the sin in the Garden of Eden that brought about the curse of God was not the eating of literal fruit, but the sexual union between Eve and the chimpanzee-serpent-beast. I kid you not.
Yet, the movement and the meetings with Todd Benley went on... until last week when reality caught up.
Now let me say, I work very hard to be charitable to Christians of different stripes-- much to the chagrin of those in my denomination who think we are the one true New Testament faith. And, this is not intended to be a post against one group (note, again, the title and you can visit my earlier posts on Pentecostal movements here and here.) Finally, I tend to think that movements should work out their theological discussions and I stay out of them-- rarely writing a post like this.
Yet, when I see things like this, it is just hard not to ask: does anyone still have a Bible and some common sense?
Let me add: I do not think this is a Pentecostal issue. That is why the title is, "Evangelical Gullibility."
In other words, all kinds of Christians are forwarding emails about the FCC's phony plan to ban religious braoadcasting, signing up to have emails sent to the loved ones after the rapture, and watching Christian television for its theological depth. For that matter, I have just as many odd people come up to me with "something they discovered in the Bible that no one has ever noticed" after I speak at a Baptist, Wesleyan, of non-denominational meeting as I do when I speak at a Pentecostal one. Furthermore, many Pentecostals and Charismatics HAVE expressed concern about this movement-- including some when I visit the Assemblies of God office a couple of weeks ago.
I just have to wonder with Grady if Christians really are just gullible.
True revival is generally a messy affair. On the one hand abuses often accompany genuine works of God, and on the other hand much of what is called revival is nothing more than fanaticism. Courage is required to ask tough questions and do so with with grace and kindness, patience is necessary to wait and see if what is called revival bears lasting fruit, and theological discernment is critical for the church when it comes to awakenings and revival.
Posted on August 17, 2008 at 6:12 PM ~ 36 Comments
Tagged with: awakening, bentley, charisma, grady, heresy, lakeland, pentecostal, revival
You are welcome (and encouraged) to comment below, but be sure your comment relates to the post. Feel free to discuss the topic, but do not denigrate individuals. Comments are moderated and usually appear within 15 minutes of being posted. Regrettably, Ed cannot personally respond to most comments and questions.
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36 Comments
08/18/08 @ 8:51 AM
Thanks for the challenging post. As a pastor, this is a pressing concern with the church. Can we do the hard work of discernment or have we given in to be tossed around by the wind and the waves of worldly living, poor theology and whatever looks interesting.
Hebrews 5 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
I don't believe it is the case that we don't want to do what is right, I believe it is that we don't want to put in the hard work and prayer it takes to be discerning...is it that Christianity simply takes too much time for some?
John Johnson
www.pluslife.wordpress.com
08/18/08 @ 9:36 AM
Going ... going ... GONE! Another home run.
My answer is yes, and a lot of it lies in the fact that we've been taught so many doctrines .. so many conclusions from scripture ... without actually having been taught the scripture itself, that far too many baptists simply don't have the scriptural base to discern false conclusions drawn from from true scripture.
"So Judas ... went away and hanged himself... (Matthew 27:5:) .. Go and do likewise ...(Luke 10:37)", anyone?
08/18/08 @ 10:56 AM
Excellent post.
One quick thought as I read the blessing that Wagner extended to Bentley -- isn't there a sense in which these things happened? Bentley was finally, and hopefully, humbled and exposed -- God filled his life and ministry with renewed power. Not the kind that he was probably wanting and/or expecting but the kind that was desperately needed. If that makes sense.
08/18/08 @ 10:56 AM
Evangelicals are gullible because their faith is largely rooted in emotional responses, from beginning (the "feeling" or "conviction" of being saved) to the practice - that is, the emotional manipulativeness of most evangelical services.
So what do you expect?
08/18/08 @ 11:02 AM
Ed,
Great post!
There is no doubt a high level of “gullibility� among Christians. For the most part, it is selfishness that drives the behavior of Christians that are really driven by the emotion, seemly to make them feel a part of God,…when all along they simply misunderstand that it is God that takes hold of them and supplies His sanctifying work perfectly to their lives. The charlatans like Bentley and Branham are not so much the problem,….it is the ignorance of those listening to the game designed by these men.
It is a lack of knowledge that leads folks to hang around guys like Bentley or Branham,…so we must be able to confront Bentley and Branham’s empty words by preaching the truth of scripture and disciple other Christians to follow Christ and not men. These men and their type of antics are really nothing new…but Christians must remain firmly dependent on Christ to easily see the scheming of such men. After all, it is not really all that difficult to discern the error of such teaching.
Christians are too silent concerning heresy these days!
Blessings,
Chris
08/18/08 @ 11:15 AM
>> Evangelicals are gullible because their faith is largely rooted in emotional responses, from beginning (the "feeling" or "conviction" of being saved) to the practice - that is, the emotional manipulativeness of most evangelical services. So what do you expect?
Mac,
A fair question.
Although I am not anti-emotion, it can't be ALL emotion. (Some of my friends need some emotion in their faith... grin.)
Chris wrote:
>> Christians are too silent concerning heresy these days!
I must confess I agree and disagree at the same time.
Seems like many folks are calling everything "heresy." That makes it harder because people don't want to be lumped in with the angry heresy hunters (usually bloggers who live in their mom's basement).
But, we need to be unashamed to call it as it is. Some already were-- but not enough.
Curt wrote:
>> One quick thought as I read the blessing that Wagner extended to Bentley -- isn't there a sense in which these things happened? Bentley was finally, and hopefully, humbled and exposed -- God filled his life and ministry with renewed power. Not the kind that he was probably wanting and/or expecting but the kind that was desperately needed. If that makes sense.
Curt, you are working hard to make lemonade. Grin.
I do think it is essential that we not rejoice in his trial but rather pray that God will change hearts and work through the situation.
Anyway, I am out the rest of the day so I will have to leave it there and let others share their thoughts.
Ed
08/18/08 @ 11:43 AM
I grew up in a very small "independent" Baptist church in East Tennessee. It was not unlike the scene you described a few weeks ago on Sunday morning. Preachers were "anointed by God" and didn't need things like seminary or education. People took everything that came out of the preacher's mouth as gospel. Now, I loved my former church, and good people attended there. And the truth (for the most part) was preached. But after attending a Christian college and studying scripture in depth for myself, and now attending a large church where staff members have been educated and really studied the meaning behind the scriptures in their original context, I now see that a LOT of the things taught as gospel in my former church were really just someone's opinion. For example, the KJV is the only divinely inspired translation of the Bible. (Because we all know Jesus spoke Old English.)
Anyway, I guess my point is that it isn't necessarily gullibility, though that is true in that some people will believe anything they hear. I think it also has a lot to do with laziness on the layperson's part. We are just too lazy to study for ourselves, so we let other people shovel information into our heads and we never take the time or effort to read the Bible and make sure they are telling us the truth.
08/18/08 @ 11:45 AM
I am a Pentecostal that is saddened by the events in Lakeland. It reveals that many Christians are prone to easy belief, but it also reveals a hunger for spiritual encounters.
In retrospect and as Grady points out, we should have easily seen the signs concerning Bentley.
My prayer is that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water. May there be solid spiritual leadership that leads the Church into a genuine encounter.
(Side note: Didn't Rick Warren look solid last Saturday night? Sharp contrast between Bentley and Warren.)
08/18/08 @ 11:55 AM
This is a good post, Mr. Stetzer. I went to Lakeland in May to see this thing for myself and left totally unconvinced it was a "revival." And now we are seeing the true colors shining through.
All I ask is that you remember not to associate Bentley and all that happened there since April with all of us Pentecostals and Charismatics. There are those of us who want the real thing - not emotionalism, not fantaticism, not anything manufactured - just the real presence of God.
Lakeland, FL is also the home of Mark Rutland, one of the greatest Pentecostal minds out there today.
Of course I would also ask you to remember that we need to avoid the extremes on all sides - the "anything goes, God does a new thing" attitude of Bentley's followers...but also the extreme of one America's largest and most influential denominations enforcing a policy that doesn't "allow" its missionaries to pray in tongues, even privately.
There's error everywhere...but the good news is, there's truth everywhere too!
08/18/08 @ 12:56 PM
Ed,
Great post. Thank you for taking a stand.
Dana,
I, admittedly, would be considered to be in the "cessationist" camp, and so cannot agree with your comment about the "extreme" position of the IMB. More troubling, for me is your statement that "[T]here's error everywhere...but the good news is, there's truth everywhere too!" That is a dangerous way of looking at things. I am sure that you did not mean it as it "sounds". Truth is not everywhere. Our understanding of truth must be based on what God has revealed to us in His word. And if what we experience is contrary to God's revelation of Himself there, then what we experience is certainly not "true".
08/18/08 @ 1:26 PM
Ed,
Fair enough,…in that “heresy� is probably too general of a category and is certainly abused like anything else. I guess I would still use the term, but try to define the heresy as being something foreign to the “work of Christ on behalf of the believer�. There is not anything new under the sun,…..and Bentley evidently tried to convince people there was. On the contrary, revival is easy to see and know however…. It is not the emotion of the people. It is in the clarity of the gospel and the presence of Christ in the lives of those being saved.
The Spirit’s work is consistent and has never caused confusion among those being saved….so a real revival does not look like “Lakeland�, ….it looks like Jerusalem.
Acts 2:40-42 "And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" (41) So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. (42) They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
There will always be those looking for a sign or expecting the waters to part, or the sky to rain fire,…but the greatest revival is the change of the heart where God’s wrath has been averted on behalf of an adopted child! Now that’s charisma beyond measure. But none the less, it does take knowledge and discernment to point out the heresy, which in return leads to less gullible individuals.
Blessings,
Chris
08/18/08 @ 2:43 PM
Jay
I meant that there is both error and truth in most theological streams, systems, and denominations, yours, mine, and probably everyone else's.
I do, however, agree with those who state that all truth is God's truth and is true no matter where its found.
So even in the midst of the chaos of Lakeland, if Todd Bentley said, "Jesus can save your soul and change your life", that truth is still God's truth and may have even seen fruit come forth because the truth is stronger than the avenue through which it came.
Hope that puts your fears to rest.
08/18/08 @ 3:07 PM
I finished my Masters of Divinity at Oral Roberts University. One of my classes was called "Sign and Wonders" In this class we learned how to do miracles. ;-)
We studies about Branham, and he was talked of quite favorably as a great healer.
If memory serves, I think Branham was also into "violent healings." As I recall, he once punched a man in the stomach to "heal" him. This man died on stage.
So in truth, Bently may have been right to say he was the inheritor of Branham's "mantle" of ministry.
08/18/08 @ 4:27 PM
>> All I ask is that you remember not to associate Bentley and all that happened there since April with all of us Pentecostals and Charismatics. There are those of us who want the real thing - not emotionalism, not fantaticism, not anything manufactured - just the real presence of God.
Dana,
A very valid concern. I tried to nuance my post with that in mind (and even sent it to a friend at AOG headquarters to be sure).
I am not a Pentecostal, but I do appreciate my Pentecostal brothers and sisters. And, I will take your caution to heart.
Ed
08/18/08 @ 5:00 PM
Ed,
As a lifelong AOG attender (4th gen), let me say I appreciate your willingness to point out the excesses and errors in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles, while refusing to write us all off as so many other major authors do.
I had my concerns about Lakeland from the day I first heard of it in April. Regrettably, things are much worse than I could even imagine back then.
08/18/08 @ 5:25 PM
One of my friends at AOG headquarters sent this along. George Wood, current Assemblies of God Superintendent, put out a statement a while back on how to test revival.
Find the whole document here and some excerpts below. It is pretty obvious to what he refers... and note that he put it out before the most recent developments.
08/18/08 @ 8:31 PM
Christians are by definition gullible. These are people who believe they have a relationship with an invisible being and that when they die they will go live forever in a happy place. These are the people who believe that God loves everyone very much and if anyone doesn't believe that, God will torture them forever in a lake of fire.
08/18/08 @ 9:22 PM
David,
It was more colorful when George Carlin did the same bit, but either way it is something of a caricature of what Christians believe.
To be fair, I can’t disagree that following Christ requires faith. However, there is enough evidence to make Christianity plausible (though not provable). Then, faith comes in.
If you were interested, I'd suggest a read of the Reason for God by my friend Tim Keller or some of Lee Stroebel's books.
But, that is a discussion for another day and not the point of this post.
Ed
08/19/08 @ 9:13 AM
Yet, when I see things like this, it is just hard not to ask: does anyone still have a Bible and some common sense?
I think this statement needs to be broadcast to most of what is called 'Christian' music today.
The 'artists' tend to believe their art, is more important than the creator of it.
Thanks for the great post!
08/19/08 @ 10:18 AM
Ed,
I thought it is interesting what George Wood alluded to,…..
“Our former general superintendent, Thomas F. Zimmerman, once compared the Holy Spirit to a mighty river, and the Scriptures to the banks of that river. Brother Zimmerman said that great harm occurs when the river overruns the banks, but that the river does great good when it stays within the banks.�
It is allusions of this sort that really confuse the “gullible� Chrisitian. If the person, “Holy Spirit�, flows as brother Zimmerman is describing, then there is no need to fear where the “banks� may be. The person we know as the Holy Spirit of God is never constrained to staying within bounds to appease our human desires, nor is the Spirit of God an “it�, nor should the Person of the Spirit be alluded to as an “it�. The Person of the Holy Spirit applies perfectly His work of sanctification to His adopted Children.
There truly is no great harm of any kind when the Holy Spirit (river) runs. Nor could there ever be! I do agree with George that Jesus Christ is to be exalted and the Word of God proclaimed. That is precisely how Christians become less gullible.
Blessings,
Chris
08/19/08 @ 12:03 PM
Interesting comments on Bentley. I pray those leaders from the church that 'embraced' him don't write him off. They were quick to put him on a pedestal-let's see howmany truly walk the walk & talk the talk. Jesus would rebuke his behavior naturally, but he also would 'show' him he loves HIM not the sin and TRULY forgive him. That's kinda what I'm lookin for the 'Church' to do. I'm very aware of William Branham-I was sort of screwed up (oh I've always been screwed up) by the Branham church. I married a guy inside the church. He worked for their ministry-his father founded part of their ministry. I'm not going to go into the details, but I finally broke free from him and all the abuse there. I sat in a service at the Branham Tabernacle and heard on the tape (their church service consists of listening to Branham's tapes) that essentially a "bullet" should not even be "wasted" on a woman. Woman are pretty much second, no 5th class citizens there. Bitterness... Yea, but every day I ask God to give me the grace to forgive them 100%. It's a process. READ YOUR BIBLES people then you will know what is right. Oh and lot's (ton's) of prayer. Ya know we all have to remember at the end of the day we are each trying to find our way to the cross. We've all fallen one way or the other. We are ALL susceptible to falling. We serve a big GOD-He helped me, so HE can help Mr. Bentley. As my Pastor said, as long as we are on this earth and breathing there's hope. He's a young lad, but pretty darn wise. Pretty darn crazy too, but hey that's why I fit in so well! :)
08/19/08 @ 9:16 PM
Two Thumbs Up!
I found a video on YouTube of a toddler "preaching" in front of a church. He was imitating his dad and went up and down the stage yelling unintelligible words (he's probably 2 years old). I think it might have been a UPC church and he might have been shouting "One God."
Anyway, the comments on the video were amazing. People who had been there talked about the power of the HOly Spirit coming through this child's message.
A child shouts gibberish and this is taken as a movement of God.
God's people are gullible.
08/19/08 @ 9:16 PM
One need only watch twenty minutes of most TBN programming or view the top 25 Christian bestsellers on any given day to see there is a clear lack of spiritual discernment practiced in Christendom. Sadly the gift of discernment only prospers in the body when individuals are growing more mature in their relationship to Christ. If evangelical leaves any historical marker it will be that we sold a lot of fire insurance but forgot to teach most how to put out fires.
There's a whole lot of money in Christianity. Anymore its all about who can get more of it than someone else and establish their celebrity. We've lost fidelity of calling of commitment to service to growing God's kingdom. This is more evidence of the failings of evangelicalism in an emerging post-Christian age.
You are the Church!
R.A.
08/20/08 @ 12:48 AM
Ed,
Thanks. I love the Team Pyro guys, but I think they came down too harshly on people like John Piper and Sovereign grace for not saying something. The whole church is in need of some discernment. I think pointing out that AOG response is good research. More so, I'm sure I'll be blogging a response to them. Thank you for not mixing charismatics and pentecostals of one stripe with the "less discerning" to put it mildly. I grew up that way and saw some pretty weird things done in God's name. How much of it was just emotionalism? *sigh* But I did see a love for God as well. I'm glad (however) I got out of that and run with a great charismatic (little c) reformed sbc (yep sbc) crowd.
08/20/08 @ 6:42 AM
Several thoughts come to mind: First, thanks for the great and well-informing post. Second, theological depth on TBN? My laundry list of speakers who offer that is slim to none. All the hoopla, emotional screaming, etc. I do not see as offering anything near depth. The "name-it claim-it" garbage lacks any Scriptural proof. I got to this post late so had to skim through the other comments but may I ask a question? Why is no one questioning Wagner's credibility in this whole affair? "other apostles?" "I decree..." I have major concerns with that. Finally, I feel bad that the church will once again take a "hit" for its failure to present Jesus with credibility.
08/20/08 @ 9:26 AM
Chris,
I believe the "it" refers to the river which is a metaphor of the Holy Spirit in the quote.
Of course, metaphors are never perfect, but I think that scripture providing "river banks" (or boundaries on each side) makes an important point.
If the "Holy Spirit" goes outside the bounds of scriptural teaching than we know that is not the Holy Spirit.
Bill,
Be sure to read the whole sentence and you will note it was irony.
Ed
08/20/08 @ 9:50 AM
Searching the scriptures, seems like a novel approach, yet it is strikingly familiar....
Acts 17:11 (NLT)
And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul's message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to check up on Paul and Silas, to see if they were really teaching the truth.
08/20/08 @ 10:18 AM
Ed,
I guess I get a little sensitive to anyone trying to fit God into analogies. It just never seems to work very well. So, yes…as the river of life flows from the throne (Revelation 22:1), the person of the Holy Spirit is not constrained. You bring up an excellent point, that as we begin to understand the ways of God by meditating on His Word, the Holy Spirit reveals to us the boundaries.
John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
Blessings,
Chris
08/20/08 @ 1:37 PM
Carl,
Its always interesting to imagine what the scripture they were searching in consisted of... in other words what texts were they "thumbing" through to verify the teachings of Paul for instance?
It would be amazing to see the look on their faces as they realized Paul was echoing their prophets of old...and then "thumbing over" to what the prophets had said.
Blessings,
Chris
08/21/08 @ 1:31 PM
We really need a new apostolic commissioning.. here is my suggestion.. some of it will be familiar..
* your love will increase
* your humility will increase
* your generosity will increase
* your tribulations will increase
* while you decrease, Jesus will increase
08/21/08 @ 1:33 PM
btw, a book which ought to be reprinted about now was written by Richard Quebedeaux and published in 1982 by Harper and Row: "By What Authority: the Rise of Personality Cults in American Christianity." A solid piece of work and the last chapter is worth the price of the book..
08/22/08 @ 11:11 AM
May I commend your openness and fairness, truly rare in the blogosphere where one is wont to encounter much vitriol, venom and hate, in the name of defense of orthodoxy.
As to the matter of gullibility, i am not quite sure what that related to, Todd Bentley's style and doctrine or the validity of the miracles? Imperfect doctrine has never in the history of the church totally disqualified a man from being used of God, and unfortunately character issues sometimes surface even with the anointing present. Otherwise none of us will be in the service of the gospel today. And none of those great leaders of the past we quote so abundantly would have been used of God. Besides, men with what many will consider perfectly orthodox doctrine have committed disgraceful private acts. Unless of course you hold to the position that miracles are not for today.
Certainly the church must address excess, immorality, and untoward conduct wherever it surfaces. However I am troubled by the pentecostal, charismatic bashing so prevalent in some circles, it smacks of arrogance and is most unChristlike. These folks hold to doctrine that we charismatics also consider to border on heresy, yet we leave them well alone. Google any major pentecostal preacher and the first set of links are critical and hateful. Google John Piper, McCarthy, Tim Keller and the others basically leave them well alone. We even read them, i do, though a definitely non-Calvinist, charismatic woman church planter/preacher believing in a 6 day creation. We simply agree to disagree on some issues.
As you say Christians of all hue and stripe are wont to fall into error, but please shout it from the rooftops you are a lone voice, one i do appreciate. And by the way, i liked your book 'Comeback Churches'. May our Father bless you.
09/01/08 @ 10:16 AM
Hello there!
Having read all comments I would just like to add that as God is not a 'respector of persons' and He is Sovreign. He knows the hearts of those who attended the Lakeland revival - He is naturally well able to deal whatever may have taken place, alongside and/or despite Todd Bentley.
I have been corresponding with a Christian lady who was at the revival for a month. She saw people saved, delivered and healed. She heard the name of Jesus lifted up constantly, He was praised and worshipped, the gospel was taught.
She went there knowing she would need the Lord to help her discern what was taking place at all times - as she said - 'God wouldn't give her a snake if she asked for a fish,' so she asked for protection and discernment.
She told me that she had intended staying at Lakeland for two weeks but was enabled to stay for a month.
She said she saw that the revival was definitely of God and it was a privilege to be there.
Sadly,now that she has returned home, some of her friends won't see her, pray with her etc.
As others have said, God is now dealing with all the 'warts' - don't we all have them?!
Lets be discerning and let God be God without trying to put Him in a neatly packaged be-ribboned box, and focus on Him not any man other than Jesus.
Our Father in heaven can bring great good out of all our worst messes - we only have to look at the crucifixion!
Lets all join in prayer for healing and wholeness for Todd and his family.
Blessings,
Pippa
09/01/08 @ 11:48 AM
I am coming to this post late in the discussion but I appreciate the discussion and the inclusion of Brother Wood's statement.
A few days into the Lakeland events, my nephew called and said he was invited to attend. I was immediately skeptical and asked about it. Once we figured out the where and when, three in our household did a little viewing and a little research and all came to the same conclusions. Within a very short time I called the nephew and explained my serious reservations. He went once and that was the end.
Why was/is it so hard for people to know the truth and walk it out? We can't just chalk it up to gullibility and charismatic preachers etc. As mentioned previously, we also can’t make generalized statements concerning those of us that are Pentecostal.
In an old Charlie Daniels song he says "people done put their Bibles away and now their living by the law of the jungle, not the law of the land". In the church, we're living by some fuzzy law of what my pastor says mixed in with what I think and what was channeled through some "anointed" TV personality. Although it seems too mystical to some folks, the gift of discernment is a viable (for today ) gift of the Holy Spirit. We need a lot more application of it.
Yup, Mr. Daniels had it right, we put our Bible away for what seems right or we simply don't care to point out the wrong we see everywhere or use the Bible to do that chore either. Our Bible is useful for, among other things, correction. Let’s be bold enough to stand on its foundation when dealing with false teaching.
Thank God for men like Dr. Wood and others that were willing to call it like it was early in the process.
12/05/08 @ 9:02 AM
There is Power in the Bible
John 1:1 tells us exactly what the Bible is - the Word of God.
There is power in God's word to revive people, to perform the miraculous. Through His word the world in which we live came to be.
Have you experienced that Power, I have. Have you experienced the opposition and persecution that comes with it. I have. Preacher do you stand on the word of God and recognise that there is nothing in God that needs to change and there is much in us that does. Let God be the judge and let man who believes get on with the job that he was called to do. Were we called to slate one another NO. Were we called to rescue people from certain death YES lets get on with the job we were called to do. Mathew 28:18-20 Bow the knee and humbly Seek God, study His word with His guidance in the Holy Spirit - use His word in the Holy Spirit. His word. There is power in the Word of God that is not in the words that explain about the Word of God. Have you experienced this Power. I have.
Is God Indescribable to you? He is to me. Do I love Him and want to serve Him. Yes I do.
I can't speak for Todd Bentley but I know satan will attack a man who chooses to serve Christ and I am challenged about what little I have done for Him. I saw all of about 3 hours of Todd's ministry I was challenged with my thoughts and judgements. That is where it rests. What are you prepared to do for God. People are dying on our streets for the lack of knowing Jesus Christ. Lets Stand up for Him. How did you respond when Christ challenged you to say to a stranger... Do you know Jesus Christ? What are you prepared to do and at what cost? Christ was prepared to give His life are you prepared to give yours standing on the promises of God? Romans 8:28
From a Baptist church attending Christian. Who believes in The Lord Jesus Christ that He walked out of the tomb before the stone was rolled away and lives that we too might live and be set free from sin and guilt and death. This is what I believe he rose again on the Third day Jesus christ the Son of God and He now lives in you and me,and whoever is prepared to give their life to Him. Come and live the abundant and powerful life in Jesus Christ. How passionate are we about this or are we consumed with the busyness of our everyday lives. Don't forget the message there is Power in the Word.
02/17/09 @ 11:44 PM
you are just a presumptuous ignorant mocker of divine revelation. William Marrion Branham was a very respectable Prophet and son of GOD, led by the Spirit of GOD. Just like Korah you speak against things you don't understand!. you were well spoken of by Peter and Jude brute beasts children of the serpent who reject Jesus Christ the WORD(revelation) all the time kissing His picture. uncircumcised in heart and ears only speaking of what you know naturally.REPENT, YOU BUNCH OF SELF RIGHTOUS HIPOCRITICS, you change the grace of our GOD into jesting lasciviousness.