Sometimes I feel that I live in two worlds.
First, there is the SBC world. It is big, powerful, and tribal. SBC world is so big that you can live your life in that world and never know there is a broader Christian community. In that world, almost every pastor would know who Junior Hill is, but I am guessing many of my non-SBC readers do not.
Second, there is the broader Christian world. And, there are some movements in that world that impact the SBC world. More on that in a moment.
This week is a mix for me and it prompted this blog post.
In just a few hours after posting this I will be speaking at the New Mexico SBC Evangelism Conference. To them, I will be the "progressive" guy. But, they bring me in to shake things up. In SBC life, I am the guy that they consider "safe enough" because I am in the family and really do believe the doctrine, but "dangerous enough" that people will come to watch me get myself in trouble.
The next day I am at the Innovation3 conference and many will think of me of the guy who is stuck in the past because (for example) I think "Internet Church" is like "United Baptist," two words that won't go well together.
And, of course, when I am at the Vineyard National Leadership Forum on Thursday and they will not know what to do with me, but they are always nice and I am glad they would think to invite me.
But, Baptists have their own world. One big SBC guy writes a book and soon every other big SBC pastor endorses it. And, that's not bad. But, if we don't get out sometimes we end up a little too inbred.
Some in the SBC dare to read beyond the walls of the convention. Some even work with others (as one example, see my post about Table 71 and Jerry Rankin).
I spend a little more than half of my conference speaking time outside of my denominational family (unlike some, I consider my denomination a home and not a prison). But, for most of us, we are good with each other and don't need much more, thank you very much.
But, sometimes my worlds collide. And, I like that. I like when a movement I am passionate about (like the missional church conversation), intersects with my denominational family in thoughtful ways.
Jimmy Draper is one of my friends. And, if you are SBC, you know Jimmy (and for that matter, if you don't know who Jimmy is, you are not really SBC!). He was called "Mr. Southern Baptist" when he retired as President of LifeWay. I have written about him before on the blog (see here). So, Jimmy emailed me a while back and asked what I thought about Alan Hirsch, I was a little confused. I checked the "from" box and it was indeed from Jimmy Draper. And, he said he was enjoying a book by my friend Alan Hirsch, which I am pretty sure was not on the approved reading list. He saw my endorsement on the book (yes, I do leave the plantation at times) and wanted more info.
We chatted about it and then I asked, "Would you be willing to write a book review on my blog about Alan's book?" And, he agreed.
So, in the spirit of "crossing the streams" and proving that "Mr. Southern Baptist" can read "Mr. Missional," I present you Jimmy Draper's review of Alan Hirsch's book, The Forgotten Ways. Enjoy-- and, my fellow SBC friends, let's follow his example!
Let me say first that I enjoyed reading the book. It is at the same time challenging and disturbing. It certainly should cause any reader to examine carefully his/her concept of the church, and seek to discover the real essence of the church in the New Testament. I would encourage the reading of this book by devoted believers. I have some comments that should not be construed as endorsement, but observations about things that I feel are strengths and some concerns that are raised.
This is not an exhaustive list. I have tried to be brief...but have not succeeded very well!
Strengths:
- I like his passion for the Gospel and for the health of the church.
- Strong emphasis upon living the message of the Gospel in every area of our lives...what he calls the Incarnational essence of the church. He emphasizes what many of us have preached for years: there is no distinction between the secular and sacred. All of life is sacred and our faith should affect everything we do.
- He correctly identifies the inherent dangers of the institutional church. These are dangers we all should note.
- Strong emphasis on the Lordship of Christ. For him it is the central doctrine of our faith...faith involves a relationship with Christ.
- Good concept of the believer and the church existing to reproduce: what he calls "missional."
- Promotes the covenant nature of the church. It is a covenant with God and each other.
- Strong emphasis on discipleship.
- His strong belief that we need to constantly critique what we are doing and have a process of healthy change.
- Importance of seeing our Western world as a mission field.
- His presentation of the church under persecution presents a great challenge to all of us.
- His description of the challenges to the Western Church...i.e. discontinuous change, maintenance mentality, lack of passion for the lost, etc.
- His challenge to the church to connect with every aspect of our culture with the Gospel.
- Good emphasis on creation as pivotal in our understanding of God: the Transcendence and the Immanence of God.
- The importance of unity and synergy in the church.
- His conclusion that Purpose is everything. We will become what we purpose to be.
- Danger and risk is good for the church.
- His discussion that "ministry" is for insiders, and "mission" is for outsiders of the church. He makes a good point that if the purpose of the church is on ministry, it will never get around to mission. But if the purpose is mission, it will have to do ministry.
- His discussion in the addendum about the difference between "operational" leadership and "adaptive" leadership is good. Adaptive leaders are able to lead change and operational leaders seem to just maintain the status quo.
Concerns:
- There is no definitive doctrine. "Jesus is Lord" seems to be the only criterion for doctrine, and the only identification of doctrine. There is little, if any, implications of how that impacts our doctrine. The emphasis upon living the message becomes obscure if there is no clear message or doctrine to live.
- If everything is found in "Jesus is Lord," then we have no need for the epistles or the rest of the New Testament beyond Acts. He refers to the "Apostles doctrine" but never says what that is. He speaks of "uncluttering our overly complex theologies" (p. 99), but what does that mean?
- We don't have to abandon structural or "institutional" church in order to see all of life as sacred. We can know and practice that knowing Jesus means bringing everything under his Lordship without abandoning church structure. He doesn't seem to leave that an option.
- He repeatedly discredits the institutional church of the West, all while claiming he doesn't do that. Even a casual reader would discern his lack of confidence in the church as we know it in the West.
- He gives us no clear direction of what to do. Most of his examples involves the persecuted church. No guidance for those of us who are not under persecution.
- He has no place for positional or elected, appointed leadership. Not sure how that is reconciled with Paul's clear instructions to Titus to appoint "elders" in Crete.
- His focus on ministry and mission is good, but what about the rest of the New Testament and the development of "offices" and "structure"?
- There is a lack of any moral or ethical guidelines. Does the church under persecution not have any? I realize his book could not cover everything, but some clarity about doctrine, morals and ethics is needed.
- His distinction between "Operational" leadership and "adaptive" leadership is good - but it is unclear how leaders become leaders...it seems they just rise to the top, etc. That is a good way...but how do you train leaders. He seems suspicious of trained leadership and appears to discredit formal education. He is very distant to any affirmation of seminaries, etc.
- He categorizes most church practices today as unbiblical.
- He makes the claim that most of us think of buildings when we mention "church." That is likely true of many, but not of all. I know I don't think that way and don't know anyone who does.
- His goal is to create networks. Networking is important, but it is very similar to our associations, conventions, etc. In Southern Baptist life, which he references throughout his book, the various entities of our convention life exercise no authority over the local church, unless that church chooses to allow it.
- Toward the end of the book he calls the suffering of Paul in the ministry as a "prescription" for all believers. (p. 224) All of us do suffer in one way or another, but Paul's sufferings are not prescriptive...they are descriptive. All suffering is unique to those who suffer.
- He is very negative about the church growth emphasis because it has not resulted in church growth. It is hard to find conflict with the church growth strategies and the Great Commission. It hasn't worked as it should perhaps because we haven't implemented what is advocated. He seems to just discard it.
- He states that Western middle-class culture is contrary to New Testament. That seems to be an overstatement to me. We certainly are a materialistic culture in the West, but if all of life is sacred and God is immanent in his creation, it seems that we should find Him within all the various cultures...and not just a certain kind of culture.
Conclusion:
It is a book that is worth reading because it calls us to examine our weaknesses and failures as believers and seek God's guidance for the future. It will not please everyone, but it will make the reader think and pray about the contents and concepts of the book and of the biblical revelation.
- Jimmy Draper
Thanks jimmy for reminding us that we can learn from others while still remaining people of conviction.
Say HI to Stan Albright if you get the chance. The Northwest lost a great guy when he up and moved away!(Funny, some of the best and brightest move away...only a few brighter ones stay!)
Steve
I also think this is a must read for any mainline protestant, and would add The Shaping of Things to Come that Hirsch wrote with Mike Frost.
I too found his theology a bit shallow but also understand the point about getting bogged down in irrelevant matters. Additionally, I was frustrated by the lack of application with all the theory and introspection.
That being said, Hirsch is still one of my favorite authors and thinkers!
I've been blessed to know Bro. Jimmy and I count him as both a friend and an example of what it means to have grace and authority at the same time. He's respected, not for any position that he has held but because of a life of commendable service to our Lord and through His church to the world. If we had Bishops within the SBC, he'd be the Pope - and a good one. Thank you Bro. Jimmy. BTW - his biography is quite good, he gave me a copy once - I think it was so I'd ask fewer questions ;-)
Well, I am honored! Thanks for posting this Ed, and thanks for taking the time to read the book Jimmy. I hope we can meet oneday and talk through some of the issues.
I will resist the temptation to respond to some of your concerns. the only thing I will say is that I deeply love the church in all its forms, but I really believe in the church as missional movement. Please read whatever critique there is in it as one of love and commitment to Jesus cause through his people.
This post is very helpful in understanding and illustrating just how hard it is to change the conversation.
"I consider my denomination a home and not a prison."
I love that quote. Excellent post. I've been Baptist most of my life but I didn't know it til years later. (Maybe I'll write about that sometime.) Great observations. My list of books to read just got longer.
Maybe Alan's book is a "part 1" one--not yet finished, and part 2 is to deal with Bro. Jimmy's concerns.
About Dr. Draper, I'd like to say: he can TAKE "concerns" as well as share them--a strength of his, I'd say. During Sunday School Week at Glorieta in the summer of 2005, our congregation's ministry staff hosted Dr. and Mrs. Draper for supper one evening in our rented lodge (Bro. Jimmy was the keynote speaker that week; none of us had heard of "Ed Stetzer" yet!)--and we each had a chance to share with the good doctor how LifeWay helps us in our ministry. When it was our college minister's chance to speak up, he told Bro. Jimmy that LifeWay essentially was of no help to him in serving young singles--and that he went elsewhere for most of the resources he needed in carrying out his ministry. Dr. Draper listened very graciously, then explained how ministry to young singles/college students--at least, at that time--was divided up among the SBC's various agencies. But, Dr. Draper must have taken what our church's college minister said to heart as LifeWay's president, because--if I'm not mistaken--the beginning of LifeWay's current "Threads" dates exactly from that conversation during Sunday School Week at Glorieta!
Last year in September, I accompanied college students from our local BSM to Lubbock, TX for a BGCT-sponsored FOCUS Weekend. Alan was the keynote speaker, and led breakout sessions. I had a hard time following all of his points myself, but my 20+ years of vocational ministry experience are all in traditional settings (e.g., attending SWBTS during the early '90's, no MDiv students that I know of thought they'd be pastor of a new church--we all planned to pastor established/existing congregations, and there was no talk by anyone on campus other than foreign missionaries of church planting). Hopefully, the college students in Lubbock got all the good in Alan's messages and are doing something right with it today!
David Troublefield
Minister of Education
Lamar Baptist Church
Wichita Falls, TX
david@lbcwf.org
P.S. I'd say "Christians need to get out more"--when Tim Lahaye's "Left Behind" series and Bruce Wilkinson's "The Prayer of Jabez" were so popular a couple of years ago, the majority of the nation was reading something else, like "Harry Potter" (http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=100)
Ed,
You had better be careful being so transparent. The Baptist Inquisition folks are watching. :)
Be safe.
Les
Ed,
Thanks for posting this. I have read Hirsch's previous works. He certainly blazes a new path where he goes. I am thankful for his contribution to the "conversation" on being missional. I am also thankful for Dr. Draper and his gracious review. Your post is a good reminder that there is only one team...and we are all on it. We can and should learn from one another. One Body, many parts...each with a unique purpose.
Les,
I have long since stopped worrying about that. Telling the truth should not be controversial.
Heaven forbid we suggest we read more books! ;-)
Ed
Ed,
I couldn't agree with you more.
Les
I appreciate Dr. Draper for his long service to our denomination. However, I think much of what Dr. Draper finds as concerns are actually problematic of Southern Baptists in general.
In general (though I'm sure not to be found in readers of this blog):
1. We are highly pragmatic, more pragmatic that we want to believe. We want to know HOW. We like programs and want to know how to make things work, instead of thinking through the issues ourselves and coming up with our own way. See how we re-created CWT from EE and Team Kids from Awana as examples.
2. We don't like fuzzy theology. If a person is not explicit down the line with an expression theology we start asking questions about their theology. We struggle with reading anything that isn't Southern Baptist. The reason for that is:
3. We are less theological that we want to believe. Most of our seminaries (and I'm a graduate of one of them) only prepare us to be Southern Baptist, not to think critically about theology or anything else for that matter. We don't think critically because we don't know how. We weren't exposed to other views, and we don't want to take the time to work out our own theology. We just know what we were taught.
4. We can only see ministry from SBC perspective. Dr. Draper's statement about networks and the SBC structure are telling. First, Alan is not SBC. Second, few of the structurally SBC networks actually have a missional, creative DNA within them. I don't participate in the SBC networks because they are staid, unchanging and can't think out of the SBC box. My networks are outside the SBC because when I talk about my missional views in SBC circles I get the eyes glazed over look. If it's not a program, with how-to sheets, or if it is something they have to process theologically, they can't get it and don't want to do it.
5. We think institutionally. Does every church have to appoint or vote on elders, deacons, pastors, etc? Was that prescriptive (in every case) or descriptive? Regardless of the answer, it demonstrates that we see things through institutional eyes.
This is not a critic of Dr. Draper. I applaud Dr. Draper for reading The Forgotten Ways and I will let Alan (who teaches seminary classes) Hirsch speak for himself. I wanted to take a moment to share what I see as issues in SBC life in general because we don't go outside the box.
And the award for longest introduciton to a book review goes to... Ed Stetzer!!!
Come on Ed, you know New Mexico is the most progressive state convention in the SBC. Did you ever see more jeans and fewer ties at a Baptist meeting?
Thanks for coming back to the Land of Enchantment, and thanks for your encouraging and challenging words last night. We're looking forward to a great day today. Stay out of the hot tub.
"He has no place for positional or elected, appointed leadership. Not sure how that is reconciled with Paul's clear instructions to Titus to appoint "elders" in Crete."
Crete would be a really good place for some of them.
I really appreciate and relate with David Phillips comment. I've been in the SBC since I was born (1985). Yet, I've never heard of Junior Hill or Jimmy Draper until now. There is a very different SBC culture in the northern midwest where I grew up (IA, MN, WI). I'm sure the pastors and elders and maybe even my parents would know those names, but in this part of the country Southern Baptist is a very small minority amongst Christians. I didn't go to public school with any other Southern Baptists my entire life and even when I went to university I didn't ever meet any peers that grew up in the SBC.
I've always thought that this upbringing has given me a slightly more hopeful view of the SBC than I might have gotten growing up in the Bible belt. In these states we've had to maintain more of a missional mentality than what my impression is most of the other states in the convention do. I've seen a small glimpse of what can go right in the SBC from growing up in this region. While I'm very critical of the SBC I still have hope for what Christ can do with Southern Baptists willing to truly subject themselves to His guidance. I really appreciate this post because it continues to give me hope that the SBC isn't a lost cause when someone so embedded in the "SBC way" feels free to recommend such ideas.
Dr. Ed, as your former student who is now embarking on his third church plant let me say that there are many Southern Baptist pastors who are waking up to the missional movement. I have began to plant one of the first missional churches in our area and I feel like the salmon swimming upstream. Know that you are a voice for us guys with kindred hearts. Keep doing what you are doing!
I've never heard of Jimmy Draper, but I'm gathering he's a prominent figure amongst the SBC.
Thanks Jimmy for being willing to make your thoughts public.
Prominent leaders of my denomination are petrified to say anything someone might even slightly disagree with.