I had a chance to ask Geoff a few questions about the book. He'll be around on the blog today to answer any follow up questions you may have.
You talk a lot in the book about mistakes that will keep an existing church from growing, but what advice would you give to a pastor planting a new church?
1. Don't plant a church unless there is nothing else you can do. If you could be happy pastoring an existing church or working on staff at a church or researching other churches, then that is what you should do. Church planting is incredibly hard and should only be attempted by people so passionate that they can't imagine doing anything else.
2. Partner with a church planting group. Church planting is a lonely business and you need people cheering you on from the sidelines. Seacoast helps plant churches through the Association of Related Churches, Mars Hill founded the Acts 29 Church Planting Network and Community Christian Church in Chicago leads the NewThing Network. Each of these organizations is always on the lookout for sharp new church planters. They each provide training, funding and support. Only a crazy person would plant alone.
3. Make sure your spouse and kids are 110% on board before you plant. One of the mistakes I talk about in the book is the wrong role for the pastor's family. Church planting will take a huge toll on your spouse and your children; if they are not behind you heart and soul you may destroy what is most precious to you in life. When you get to Heaven God is not going to say, "Hey, too bad about your family. But awesome job growing a great big church. Fist bump, Dude!"
How do you strike a good balance with the pursuit of excellence and the willingness to get your hands dirty in order to help someone who's in need?
I think this question goes to the very heart of what it means to grow a church. As pastors we can focus all of our time and energy on excellence and grow a great big church that isn't serving the real needs of the community. That might be a lot of fun, but it flies in the face of everything Jesus taught about servanthood and love. On the other hand we can focus exclusively on serving the last and the least without paying attention to excellence and wind up ministering to only a handful of people. While we are being servants, we aren't fulfilling the charge to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. There has to be a balance.
I think the balance is in the word effectiveness. Two key questions flow from that question:
1. In pursuing excellence are we effectively serving the people in our community? Will the new sound system, video projector or moving lights help us serve the least and the lost more effectively? Will we reach more people for Jesus with a four color brochure than with a black and white photocopy? There is a delicate balance of excellence below which we become ineffective and above which we are just showing off. That is a balance every church should check on a frequent basis.
2. In focusing on serving are we effectively leveraging the gifts God has given us? We can become so head down trying to meet needs that we lose perspective on the effectiveness of our outreach. The most compassionate, helpful act of kindness wrapped in an unappealing package will often go unopened. Service should be done from the heart with a level of excellence that honors God and compels people toward the Gospel, anything short of that is just laziness.
Your ministry background includes 27 years of ministry in churches ranging in size from 11 members to now over 10,000 attendees at Seacoast. Based on your experience, if you were to go back to that small church in Texas to how would your approach to ministry than it was the first time?
Ten Stupid Things that Keep Churches from Growing is based on the mistakes I have made through 27 years of ministry and how to recover from those errors. If I went back to pastor the little church in Texas that I left 15 years ago my hope would be that I have learned to avoid at least some of these mistakes. With that in mind I would approach pastoring with the following ten priorities:
- Preparing others to do the work of the ministry rather than trying to do most of the ministry myself.
- Finding the right balance between family and ministry
- Focusing on having an outstanding weekend worship experience
- Creating compelling environments for children's ministry
- Emphasizing integrity rather than just talent in developing new leaders
- Being willing to move the church if it wasn't in the right location for the mission of that local congregation
- Finding God's unique expression of ministry rather than closely copying what another successful church is doing
- Always working for reconciliation in conflict rather than defaulting to discipline
- Avoiding any conflict of interest when pursuing any business opportunities outside of the church
- Building healthy teams rather than getting bogged down with endless committees
You mention in your book that "in spite of the megachurch movement of the last twenty years, more and more Americans are walking away from church and away from a relationship with Jesus." Besides your idea of strategic partnerships between churches, what are some other ideas you have for increasing the fruit of the local church and not just the growth?
First, I think that every pastor, whether they are leading a church of 50, 500 or 5000, should constantly re-evaluate how they can better lead through others. A church built around the personality or skills of just one leader may attract large crowds, but the fruit of that ministry will be short-lived. Every pastor should be giving away ministry on a daily basis. From decision making, to weekend preaching, to oversight of major ministries I believe pastors need to be looking at how they can develop new leaders to carry on the vision of the church. one of Jesus' main focuses while he was on earth was giving away ministry to his 12 disciples. If he had not trained those leaders and entrusted them with ministry Christianity might never have taken off. Nothing will increase the fruit of the local church like investing in the lives of leaders to do the work of the ministry.
The second thing I believe that churches need to do is to get people focused on mission. For too long the church has been about people learning and growing and experiencing. Without mission there is no point in growing disciples. My question when I hear about people being equipped is "What are they being equipped to do?" If there is no mission there is no reason to be equipped. I believe we need to cancel Bible studies, discipleship courses and training events that aren't directly tied to people on being mission in the world to bring the Good News to a dying generation.
Finally, fruit will be increased when churches lower their force shields and begin to work together. At one of our Seacoast locations we go out into the very tough neighborhood once a month to be a blessing to people who have very little in life. We take them clothes, food, work in their yards, pick up their trash, anything that will show the love of Jesus in a tangible way. The cool part of the deal is that we have several churches who join together every month to minister to this neighborhood. We aren't worried about where the people go to church or if we can win them for our scorecard; we're all just trying to be the hands and feet of Jesus. There is powerful fruit in dropping our defenses and joining hands to make Jesus famous.
Jump into the comments to talk to Geoff about the book and mistakes in ministry. He will be interacting there all day.
WOW!! Great post!! Exactly where I am, God confirmed what I have been preaching through this article. Thank you.
Geoff,
Most of what I have seen in the multi-site world is churches that are either new or at least less than 50 years old, what is some advice you would give to a prominent church that is 200 years old in trying to be effective with multi-site/venue approach?
I'm a 27-year-old husband and daddy.
I live in a small, mostly rural town, surrounded by other small, mostly rural towns.
There are a handful of small, southern 'religion churches', but nothing that seems to be a good place to plugin my family.
Ultimately, I believe that I am called to be a part of panting Gospel-centered churches in this area, but I don't believe my family is ready.
My wife is significantly farther behind in her walk with the Lord than I am (we've been married about 2 years and dealt with serious baggage she was carrying around). And I know that we need to be much more equally yolked before I talk any steps toward church planting.
The frustrating thing is that there are no solid churches for her to plugin to in order to grow, unless we're willing to drive at least 30 minutes.
The church we're going to now is about 30 minutes away, and as I've grown over the past couple of years, I have reached the prayerful conclusion that it isn't the right place for us, given our needs and goals.
There is no discipleship, very little leadership, and very little vision.
So, at this place of serious transition, what advice do you have for my next move?
Unless someone gives me some other advice, I think we're going to plugin to another (reformed, baptist, Acts 29) church, which is even farther away, where we can do some serious growing, and then hopefully, with their help, take steps toward reaching our home community.
Any thoughts? Ideas?
How do you protect against the tendency to neglect the proclamation of the gospel in favor of "being the hands and feet of Jesus"? I frequently hear churches wanting to "be a blessing" to their community and what that often turns into is a service-oriented "gospel" without any of the propositional truths of the good news of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
Any advice on keeping the message of what God has accomplished for us in Christ central to everything we do while not neglecting the physical needs of our community?
Thanks Geoff (and thanks Ed). Great stuff.
Geoff, in avoiding these mistakes, does that make one a better leader or do you suggest pastors work on leadership before they start to work on these areas.
I've been having a hard time in my church and if I am honest with myself, I am wondering if I have what it takes to really be senior pastor. Do you think a pastor can address these areas if leadership is a weaker area for him?
Thanks
Geoff --
I can't wait to read your book.
As I look at the questions and answers you made with my hero Ed Stetzer, I can't help but feel like your book is aimed at large church ministries. Statistically, most churches are not "large" -- most churches have 100 people or fewer in attendance on sunday morning.
How does your book and your advice apply to the guy who is in an average church which, frankly, will never be a church of 500+ -- let along 5000+?
You said you were going to answer all of our questions today right? What do you think of my last two blogs? mac0486.blogspot.com
Does anyone have any helpful information/resources for gathering a core group and starting a church from the Alpha Course?
Sorry -- I thought of another question after I hit enter:
My other long-term concern in reading books about the local church is that somehow growth is always the key to whether a church is "thriving". Since that criteria is not actually one listed by the Bible, (I hear a bell ringing, signaling the beginning of Round 1 ...) why do "we" who are concerned about the local church always turn to that as if it's the key measure of success?
Thanks for the great questions. I am going into a meeting, but I will be back asap to weigh in. In the meantime here is a topic: Jumbo Shrimp, neither jumbo nor shrimp. Discuss.
Jared, I think the reason you see multi-site more among newer churches is that often it is newer churches that are growing the fastest. A few models of older churches that are multi-site include Bethlehem Baptist in Minneapolis which is well over 100 years old, Menlo Park in California which is 135 years old and Holy Trinity Brompton in London which I believe is older than Moses. (Literally)
The key to multi-site isn't the age of the church but the vision of the leadership.
Zach, my first recommendation would be that you focus on becoming a self-feeder. You need to learn to feed yourself rather than rely on your church to feed you. There are plenty of amazing resources to help you and your wife grow in your walk with Christ and to help you learn what you need to know as a church planter.
Second, whatever church you decide to plug into you need to become a leader and contributor. Rather looking for good discipleship programs you need to look at how you can disciples others.
Remember that God has called you first to grow where you are planted before you try to plant something new.
Curt, all we have to do is look at the life of Christ and follow his example. He proclaimed truth AND he served people. We have to do both. I participate in a ministry at our church called adopt-a-block in which a small group adopts a block in an economically challenged neighborhood. Some days in my block the only call I have is to serve the people. Other days I have opportunity to speak truth. I believe I am called to do both. Every church should be externally focused AND proclaiming the timeless truths of the Gospel. Salt and light baby.
Jeff, I think it's a both and. I think by addressing the areas I cover in the book you become a better leader. I don't think you can become a better leader without learning to give away ministry, focus on your family and learn to balance discipline and reconciliation. It's all leadership.
Frank, Ed is my hero also but I can't let him know. I'm afraid he'll get the big head.
Actually I would say my book is aimed more at the pastor of churches in the sub 500 range. While I think the principles are applicable at every level, most of my mistakes were made when I pastored a church of 100 people. And, even though Seacoast has over 10,000 attenders we have campuses of 80, 150, 300, 500 and 1000 so I am working on a weekly basis with almost every sized church.
Geoff/Ed,
question: what should i do if older leaders/pastors in my church do not want to change to evangelistic and reformed approach in the ministry and our youth ministry, where i am serving now became as "church inside of the church" ministry. Thanks
"Only a crazy person would plant alone."
Sadly, a pastor's call to planting isn't always confirmed by the groups you mentioned. Many pastors don't fit their mold(most are looking for a very specific type of leader), or are using methods that are harder to measure, so the groups can't offer their support or funding.
Although partnering with a group has massive benefits, sometimes striking out alone is the only option. And, God does call crazy people as well-- it would be a shame if every planter waited for a group to come on board before planting.
Frank, you asked:
My other long-term concern in reading books about the local church is that somehow growth is always the key to whether a church is "thriving"...why do "we" who are concerned about the local church always turn to that as if it's the key measure of success?
I believe that growth is always a key to whether a church is growing. (I do not believe that it is THE key) Growth of any living organism is a key indicator of health. One of the major things a doctor measures in a child is growth because growth points to health. If a church is living out the Good News of the Gospel there will be people "added daily" to there body.
That being said, numerical growth cannot be the only indicator. Cancers grow tremendously, but they certainly don't indicate health. I think every body of believers should wrestle regularly with how to measure health in their context.
concerning church growth. if you consider that the church is a living thing... it'll grow to the point where its natural ability to sustain itself is exceeded; just as all living things do, unless deprived of the nutrients (i.e. water, air, food) that are necessary for growth. There are a number of factors that comee into play regarding a church's growth quotient. I like Geoff's take; ideitifying some of the things that will inhibit (or perhaps stunt) growth is a valuable use of time and energy. Thanks for the good work Geoff.
Thanks Geoff, our 3 year old church just went multisite because renting 2 locations is way cheaper than buying one big one.
P.S. Seacoast (at least in Charleston) does some freaking great work, keep it up.
Regarding church growth as an indicator of health:
Once you reach adult size, your body has to continually produce new cells to replace old ones. That is growth.
By the same token, the average church will lose 5-10% of its attendees each year due to deaths and relocation. Just to stay alive, a local church must produce new cells (preferably through conversion over transplants from other bodies) to offset the natural loss. If they don't have at least this minimal growth to maintain their size, the congregation will eventually die.
Great dialogue today. Thanks, Geoff.
Geoff and Frank, you need better heros. Grin.
Geoff, I'm very interested in your ideas about strategic partnerships between churches - do you talk about that in your book? I might buy it just for that.
This is a home run statement IMHO:
The second thing I believe that churches need to do is to get people focused on mission.
"I believe we need to cancel Bible studies, discipleship courses and training events that aren't directly tied to people on being mission in the world to bring the Good News to a dying generation."
Bingo: Sometimes I wonder if we are so well fed and overweight we cannot move.
Geoff,
Thanks for sharing with us. I am leaving to go to NOBTS in less than a week to study North American Church planting and hopefully get plugged into the Nehemiah project. I have some experience serving in a church, but not too much. This, compiled with my young age, makes me worried that people will not find it easy to follow my leadership when training them to minister to the surrounding community. Also, I myself am not sure how great of a job I will do. I hope that I can gain some more experience in the next 2-3 years before hitting the field and that the seminary will do an excellent job, but do you have any insights for me?