As I mentioned and shared details on Saturday, I'm doing a conference tomorrow in Chicago. Whenever I come to Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, I do a one-day seminar for pastors as part of my class.

In this case, I will be focusing on "missional leadership." I recently taught on the subject in Oklahoma. Here is the video:

Missional Leadership from Ed Stetzer on Vimeo.

You can get more information about this training at the One Day web page.

Here is the outline that I used in the video and I will be using tomorrow:

Missional Leadership

1) Reconsideration of Leadership

a) From superman to everyone
b) From church to kingdom
c) From me to we
d) From personal power to people empowerment

2) Rejection of Clergification

a) From three tiers to one mission
b) From "called to the ministry" to "called to ministry"
c) From "called to missions" to "sent on mission"
d) From exceptional to ordinary
e) From "priests" to a "priesthood of believers"

3) Renewed focus on mission

a) From "full service" to "simple mission"
b) From "pay, pray, and get out of the way" to "join God on His mission"
c) From decisionism to disciple making
d) From "mission statement" to "Jesus mission"
Luke 4
Luke 19:10

4) Realignment of priorities

a) God is a missionary God
b) I personally join Him on mission - modeling
c) I lead others to join Him on mission - leadership
d) I equip others - multiplication

I hope that is helpful. Be sure to watch the video to get the context.

I am on my way to Canada right now, and it reminded me of another international trip-- just a few days ago. Let me recap my Upstream Collective vision trip to Taiwan and ask you to consider partnering in mission there.

We were blessed to be able to worship with Taiwanese believers on Sunday Morning. The beauty of the church was apparent when they invited us to join them for a meal. Afterword, I interviewed Taiwanese Pastor Chen and Michael Carpenter interviewed a student who attended church with us that morning.

The next day, I related a little Chinese history to the group in front of the Chaing Kai-Shek memorial. In the back of a Taipei cab, I interviewed Marshall Dallas of Second Baptist Church, Houston. I later interviewed Los Angeles area church planter and pastor Ray Chang of Ambassador Church, an Evangelical Free congregation, about multi-ethnic church. Ray also posted about it on his blog, Transformission.

Phil and Irene Nicholson led us through a Temple as people worshiped ancestors, Buddhas, territorial gods, and idols. It was a telling illustration of the spiritual state of Taiwan. We walked through some of the rougher parts of Taipei, where we saw the trafficking of women. We were encouraged by OMF's ongoing ministry there, including work among single mothers,shopworkers, prostitutes, and the homeless.

Then we lost Rodney Calfee in the Red Light District. Literally lost him. We found him later, though, and he learned his lesson.

Later in the week, we heard from Robert, a Taiwanese believer who eloquently explained the need for contextualization. I then posted "Five Reasons Missional Churches Don't Do Global Missions" which was, according to one commenter, "by far the best work I have ever produced." I'll let you be the judge, but it is an issue about which I am very passionate.  We need to put the "missions" back in "missional."

Finally, from atop the world's tallest building, Taipei 101, I interviewed missionary "Garth" about church planting in Taiwan.

We're thankful for several blogging friends who kept up with us during the trip. Their participation helped add a "virtual" element to the trip that allowed others to participate from home. Among the virtual trip commentators were:

• Tall Skinny Kiwi, who was reminded of his first experience in Asia.
• J.D. Greear was kind enough to give us a shout from his blog as well.
• Todd Littleton pointed out the trouble with superimposing American methodologies.
• Grady Bauer also followed along, and highlighted the trouble of importing American culture along with the gospel.
• David Jackson picked up the fundamental differences between religion and relationship.
• Bob Hyatt mentioned our trip and someone named Caleb Crider.

Our hope for this trip is to help shape the ongoing conversation about all things missional  (especially in the international context). I'm convinced that the best way to have a missional perspective here at home is to be actively engaging unreached people groups with the gospel in other places-- where it's much easier to see the need for things like contextualization, indigenous expressions of church, and biblical missiology.

I'll be leading another Upstream Collective trip, this time to London and Paris, with Daniel Montgomery of Sojourn, Louisville,  in the Spring of 2010. Sign up for more information on the Upstream Collective website.

I am writing this post from Taiwan. As I have been working with both local leaders and American pastors, I have been struck by a few things and thought I would share them with you.

First, I have traveled to Taiwan as a part of the Upstream Collective. The reason is to accompany American pastors with a desire to be missional on a cross-cultural, international encounter. (You can scroll down the last few posts to learn what we are doing in Taiwan.)

Each person on the trip has the missional impulse as part of their DNA, and they are here to consider how they might join God on his mission globally. While I admire the faithfulness of these men, I must admit my surprise to see that there is not a bigger interest in such global concerns among American pastors in general. My fellow travelers seem to be rare of a breed in ministry.

Second, when I blogged about this on Sunday, two readers contacted my hosts-- one working with the Presbyterian Church in America and one from the Oversee Missionary Fellowship (OMF). Why? Well, according to one email, the author explained, "I'm particularly interested in attracting young missional church planters here."

Third, I was recently told by a pastor who called himself "missional" that his church needed to pull back on their global mission support to help their people "be missionaries right here."

All this provokes me to ask, "Why are so many missional Christians uninvolved in God's global mission?" As the missional conversation continues and deepens, what has occurred that has led to our blindness to the lost world around us?

There are five reasons I think this has happened:

1) In rediscovering God's mission, many have only discovered its personal dimensions.

I don't mean they have somehow localized mission into their interior, "private" life-- that would make little sense. Rather, the encouragement for each person to be on mission (to be "missional") has trended toward a personal obligation to personal settings, rather than toward a global obligation to advance God's kingdom among all the nations.

"Missional" has merged with privatized Christianity to serve as the reason for personal projects carried out in personal spheres. This is not bad, necessarily. But when the missional impulse is not expanded to include God's global mission, it results in believers moved only to minister in their own Jerusalems with no mind toward their Judeas, Samarias, and uttermost parts of the earth (Acts 1:8).

2) In responding to God's mission, many have wanted to be more mission-shaped and have therefore made everything "mission."

Missions historian Stephen Neil, responding to a similar surge in mission interest (the missio dei movement of the 1950s and following), explained it this way: "If everything is mission then nothing is mission." Neil's fear was that the focus would shift from global evangelization (often called "missions") to societal transformation (often called "mission"). He was right.

Recently John Piper echoed these same concerns, differentiating between evangelism and missions. He reminded us that when "Every Christian is a missionary" equals "missional," then we have diluted the need for and specialness of missionaries to foreign lands. (Although I would want to nuance John's language a bit, I agree with his point.)

One American church's website recently identified their ministry as missional, which they proceeded to define as "reaching out to the community to invite them to come" see what is happening in the church. Another's young adult community service project consisted of landscaping the church grounds. Inviting people to church and cleaning up the church are noble endeavors, but passing them for "missional" and "service" is ministerial naïveté at best. It demonstrates the fuzziness that creeps in when labels become catch-alls. And as the outer edges of the missional label gets fuzzy so does mission to the outer edges of the world.

3) In relating God's mission, the message increasingly includes the hurting but less frequently includes the global lost.

One only needs to watch the videos to see the emphases: global orphan projects, eradicating AIDS, Christmas shoeboxes, etc. All of these causes now have advocacy groups, and rightly so, as they are important. However, their vocabulary and frames of reference do not frequently make room for evangelizing the very people they touch. The message of world evangelism, actually, seems more common in legacy/traditional churches than in missional churches. Missional churches seem to speak more of unserved peoples rather than unreached peoples. As we engage to deliver justice, we must also deliver the gospel regardless of anyone's status in a culture.

4) In refocusing on God's mission, many are focusing on being good news rather than telling good news.

St. Francis allegedly said,"Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words." Interestingly enough, Francis never actually said this, nor would he have done so due to his membership in a preaching order. But it is a pithy quote tossed into mission statements and vision sermons in missional churches all around my country. Why? It seems that many in the missional conversation place a higher value on serving the global hurting rather than evangelizing the global lost. Or perhaps it is just easier.

I am not urging a dichotomy here, only noting that one already exists. It is ironic, though, that as many missional Christians have sought to "embody" the gospel, they have chosen to forsake one member of Christ's body; the mouth.

5) In reiterating God's mission, many lose the context of the church's global mission and needed global presence.

For whatever reason-- the admirable one of commitment to the local church or the ignoble one of commitment to personalized consumeristic Christianity-- we have lost the grand scope of the entire family of God. While Christ calls people from all tongues, tribes, and nations, we have become content with our own tongue, tribe, and nation. Many churches are wonderfully embracing the missional imperative, but as they seek to "own" the mission by adapting their church into a missional movement in their local community, some inadvertently localize God's mission itself and lose the vital connection all believers share together. A hyper-focus on our own community results in a, have lost vision for the communion of the saints.

So how do we fully embrace missional without losing the mission? The Mission Exchange (formerly the Evangelical Foreign Mission Society) asked me to talk to their global leaders on the topic "How to Put 'Missions' Back into Missional." In my talk, I proposed four principles we needed to consider:

First, recognize it is God's mission, and we need to be passionate about the mission as He describes it. We don't own mission and it is not ours to define. A church vision statement is fine, but God's mission is better and bigger. Our first task is to submit to God's mission.

Secondly, evangelicals have understated the call to serve the poor and the hurting and need a stronger engagement in social justice. This sounds counterintuitive if we are seeking to remedy the loss of concern for articulated evangelism. But social engagement entails relational engagement, and relational engagement entails opportunities to share the gospel. The successes and experiences in our communities should awaken hearts and minds to global needs. We just need to maintain the reason for social justice: the glory of God in the worship of Jesus.

Third, share God's deep concern about His mission to the nations-- that His name be praised from the lips of men and women from every corner of the globe. Feel the Great Commission in your bones. Ask God to turn your heart to those you cannot see. As Paul did, develop ways to "struggle personally" (Colossians 2:1) for those far away.

Fourthly, churches that are serious about joining God on his mission will obey his commands to disciple the nations. The end product of missional endeavors should be a thriving Christian ready to produce more thriving Christians.

It appears to me that many missional churches are missing the Great Commission in the name of being missional. That makes zero sense. It is a huge (but historically common) mistake.

If we are truly interested in being missional-- in joining God on His mission-- our efforts should actually reflect His stated mission. We are bound to the Great Commandment as the fullest human expression of God's love. But the Commandment is not hermetically sealed off from the Great Commission. Rather, the Great Commission provides the what of mission, while the Great Commandment provides part of the how. Answering the age-old question of "Who is my neighbor?" should result in the desire to "make disciples of all nations."

Yesterday, I posted the video from my training in Oklahoma. I neglected to add the outline and notes, so I am posting them here. You can see the video here and the notes are below.

At the One Day web page, you can find those outlines, with "blanks" if you want to use them as training notes. Bob Mayfield tells me that 16 of the 273 churches have done their "One Day," but they have already trained over 2000 leaders. I am encouraged!

Missional Leadership

1) Reconsideration of Leadership

a) From superman to everyone
b) From church to kingdom
c) From me to we
d) From personal power to people empowerment

2) Rejection of Clergification

a) From three tiers to one mission
b) From "called to the ministry" to "called to ministry"
c) From "called to missions" to "sent on mission"
d) From exceptional to ordinary
e) From "priests" to a "priesthood of believers" codependence

3) Renewed focus on mission

a) From "full service" to "simple mission"
b) From "pay, pray, and get out of the way" to "join God on His mission"
c) From decisionism to disciple making
d) From "mission statement" to "Jesus mission"
Luke 4
Luke 19:10

4) Realignment of priorities

a) God is a missionary god
b) I personally join Him on mission - modeling
c) I lead others to join Him on mission - leadership
d) I equip others - multiplication

I hope that is helpful. Be sure to watch the video to get the context.

I am always calling the church to think of herself and live out her calling as God's missionary people. And while there is much being written on all things "missional" these days, a lot of it is theoretical and theological. We need that, but we also need practical resources, advice and tools to share with others that will encourage missional living.

One is Alan Hirsch's The Forgotten Ways handbook. Another is The Tangible Kingdom Primer. Compelled By Love and Sent: Living the Missional Nature of the Church are also practical starting points.

People are also sharing their ideas and experiences online. Jared Wilson, pastor and co-founder of Element in Nashville and author of Your Jesus is Too Safe, offers Five Missional Practices You Can Do Now. Steve McCoy, pastor of Doxa Fellowship in Woodstock, IL and uberblogger at Reformissionary offered two posts giving good practical advice for living as the sent people of God this summer. Be sure to check out Summerbia and Summerbia: Connection Tools.

* Piper, Driscoll, Greear, and Stetzer - Q&A Session

Tomorrow and Tuesday I'll be speaking at the Missional Church Planting Conference at Sojourn Community Church at an event sponsored by the Kentucky Baptist Convention and Campbellsville University. It includes a host of other great speakers and lasts for four days, so be sure to check out the full info here.

I have to say that I am genuinely excited about the gospel-centered, missional approach to church planting that we're seeing in more and more parts of my own tribe. i wish such a "missional church planting" focus would be welcome in more places, but, for now, I will celebrate it when it is welcomed. So, thanks Sojourn Church, Campbellsville University, and the KBC for making this event possible.

If you're near Louisville you should check out the Missional Church Planting Conference running Monday through Thursday (May 11-14).

Details below from their web page:

Where? Sojourn Community Church 930 Mary Street Louisville, KY 40204

When?
Monday-Tuesday: 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Monday Dinner/Q & A with Ed Stetzer: 6:00 p.m.
Wednesday-Thursday: 9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.

What?
Is God calling you to plant a church? Are you already involved in a church plant? Are you interested in church growth processes and principles? Join us for a four-day conference that will challenge, encourage and prepare you for this great calling.

On Monday and Tuesday, we'll learn from Dr. Ed Stetzer as he covers a variety of key topics, such as planting models, teams, systems and much more. All participants will also have some Q&A time with Stetzer at a special Monday evening dinner.

On Wednesday and Thursday, you'll gain in-depth insights from four church planting experts, along with breakout sessions and personal testimonies from High Impact church planters in Kentucky. Add in some worship and fellowship, and you've got what we believe will be a highlight in your journey to explore or dig deeper into church planting.

The newest issue of Biola Magazine is about "The Church in the Missional Age." I was interviewed for this issue and thought I'd share some of that conversation here. Be sure to read the whole thing at the Biola Magazine website, then come back here to discuss.

BM: Ed, would you say that the average Christian has an understanding of the term "missional"? Or is it still an "insider term" among church leaders and theologians?

ES: I would say the term has started to gain wide acceptance since the turn of the millennium among Christian leaders, however I don't think it has gotten down to the rank-and-file level. I've written a book, Compelled by Love, which is trying to be a lay-level explanation of missional, and other authors are trying to do the same. But yeah, primarily it's still a pastor's or theologian's word.

BM: My sense is that there is widespread confusion about the word, even among the pastors and theologians. Is the word useful? Is it too confusing for its own good?

ES: Well, it certainly has become the descriptor du jour. I think the problem is that people tend to see in missional what they want to see. If they want to see the church do more social justice, that's "missional." If they want to be more evangelistic, that's "missional." But I still think there's a power in a new or modified word that enables us to say, "We do need something different." I think missional has become a descriptor -- an imperfect one -- of the shift we might need in evangelicalism.

...

BM: Why is the missional movement happening now? What brought it on?

ES: Recently the New York Times quoted me referring to the "modern evangelical machine." And I think there's some discomfort with the modern evangelical machine that has produced a catered, franchise, packaged Christianity that is pretty neat and freeze-dried. I think people are looking for something that is more transformational, more organic, and missional has become that which people rally to. There are other people using other words -- like "externally focused" -- which are describing similar ideas. So the question is: Does the word "missional" have enough redefining influence to help us think more biblically about the church, or will the word become a distraction? As of yet, I don't think it has become more problematic than it is helpful. I think it's still helpful.

...

BM: So the core purpose and idea of mission is good, but there have been some unintended consequences?

ES: I think every movement has unintended consequences. The unintended consequence of the church-growth movement was that we taught churches how to meet consumers' needs, and perhaps an unintended consequence of the missional movement will be that we will deemphasize some things we need to emphasize, like sharing Christ and biblical orthodoxy and things like that. And I want to learn from both.

BM: What would you say are the good, positive contributions that you've already seen coming out of this missional movement?

ES: I think a move away from preference, from church being defined by the preferences of its attendees to church being more focused on how we can be a sign and instrument of the kingdom of God in this community. So I think it's a little less self-focused, which is positive. I think its forced people to think about what is the source of our mission, and that mission is an attribute of God himself. It's helped people to see their lives as part of redemptive history, on the move, as sent ones and sent churches. I think the rediscovery that the Jesus of Luke 19:10 -- who said "I come to seek and save the lost" -- is the same Jesus as in Luke 4 -- who came to pronounce freedom for the captives, sight for the blind, and caring for the poor -- is also a positive contribution.

...

BM: Is "missional" necessarily anti-megachurch? Can you be a megachurch and also be missional?

ES: Depends on who you ask! I think it's harder to be missional if you're a megachurch, because the machine has to be serviced. I preach every week to a church with 9,000 members, so obviously I'm not anti-megachurch. But I like to think that the church functions like a yo-yo. There are two functions at work: sending itself out, like the centrifugal force, but also the force pulling us in, which is the organization that needs to be maintained. When you spin a yo-yo, the centripetal force pulling it in and the centrifugal force pushing it out are in equal balance. But I think the more your church has, the more you have to service it, the thicker the tether. I think many megachurches spend all their time servicing the tether and not sending it out on mission. If you have 10 people in your living room, all you have to worry about is the centrifugal, but if you have a megachurch you have to worry about the centripetal as well. So I think its harder as a megachurch.

BM: One of the criticisms about missional that Dan Kimball, among others, has pointed out recently is that there have not been new converts in the missional church. Do you think this is a concern?

ES: I do think that a church should not defend their lack of converts, but rather repent of it and resolve to change. I think that some missional churches want to defend it. I do think that conversion takes longer these days. People don't really know what "getting saved" means anymore. In a secular society, missional engagement and conversion are going to take longer, but at the end of the day, if all we have is reform but no one getting born again, then I don't think that's a better situation than what we have right now.

BM: I think another criticism that has been raised is just this balance that missional tries to strike between social justice and "living out" the gospel on one hand and the proclaiming or preaching of the gospel on the other. And you even talked about this at your talk at the American Society for Church Growth conference here at Biola. How do we balance these things?

ES: I think, ultimately, if I push on two fronts -- A and B -- and I only get resistance on B, then I've got to push harder on B. Now, from my perspective I might think they are equally important, but we have to remember this: When you speak of justice, people will praise you, but when you speak of Jesus, they'll condemn you. But we can't speak of Jesus without speaking of justice and we can't biblically speak of justice without understanding Jesus, so ultimately we will have to overcompensate in the area of evangelism because that's where there is resistance.

...

BM: Do you think the missional movement might bridge the gap and divisions between, for example, the "emerging" people and the neo-Reformed crowd?

ES: Well, I don't know if it will be the great unifier, but I think we can all agree on missional -- that we need to be focused on the mission of God, not on us. I speak to a lot of pastors about missional, from Assemblies of God to Reformed, and I think that all of them more or less get it, and get why it is important.

Go and check out the whole interview (there's quite a bit more), and come back to talk about these issues. What are your thoughts?

You're probably reading this first sentence with some skepticism. "Missional" is the highly abused buzzword that gets attached to too many things already. You may be thinking, "What in the world is a 'missional wedding,' and why would I care?" However, some pastors see helping couples outside of the church through the marriage process is a great way to connect the unchurched to the gospel.

Bill Yaccino has served in pastoral ministries for 18 years, and is now the Executive Director of Catalyst, a network of congregations in Lake County, IL that collaborate towards greater Kingdom impact. (www.Catalystweb.org) His Web site, WeddingPastorsUSA.org, connects pastors with couples who are looking for ministers to perform their wedding ceremonies, and he's hoping to see more pastors take advantage of this great spiritual and cultural need. He sent me some information and I asked for permission to put it here on the blog for you to discuss. Bill calls these "missional weddings."

Bill was recently telling me that he sees this as an "in the trenches" opportunity to serve our communities. And in this situation couples come to the pastors! He said, "In Chicago, I performed over 50 weddings in 2008 and gave away over 100 to local pastors in the area!"

Bill recently pointed out that in most large U.S. cities, 35 to 45 percent of all weddings occur outside the church. "In fact," he writes, "according to a survey by Condé Nast Bridal Media, there was a nine percent decrease in the last year of couples married in a church or synagogue. And while an increasing number of ceremonies are held in parks, banquet halls, museums, hotels, and private homes, the vast majority of those couples say they still want it to be "spiritual" in nature. Most don't know what that means, yet they equate spirituality (not religion) with significance and authenticity."

So Bill's dream is for missional pastors to engage the communities God has sent them to by serving couples in need of someone to guide them through the process of covenanting together in marriage. Many pastors find themselves too busy, or too uncomfortable, to marry people outside of the church. Bill was one of those guys. But he found that this ministry helps him to connect with outsiders in real and important ways that give him the opportunity to share Christ in word and deed. He wants other pastors to get in on it too.

Bill also has a site to get other pastors involved. Download and read his article, Pastor, Will You Help Us?, in Rev! Magazine here, and then check out WeddingPastorsUSA.org for more information.

So, here is my question. What do you think? What approach do you take when you are approached by people outside of your church? What about outside of the faith?

Bill will be dropping by to answer any questions you might have.

Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, D. Min Teaching Chicago, IL (March 9-12)

I'm back in "Chicagoland" teaching a D. Min seminar on church planting at Trinity. It's a great school with sharp students, and I always enjoy my time teaching there.

I will being two events this week as well.

First, on Tuesday night I will be meeting with a group of regional Evangelical Free Church pastors about church planting.

Second, as part of my class, we are incorporating a seminar for local pastors and church leaders. It is called the "Subtext Forum."

Subtext Forum at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (March 12)
The Subtext Forum is a one day conference organized by Steve McCoy and Joe Thorn and focuses on the preaching and practice of the gospel in the suburban context. The conference runs from 10am - 3pm, includes lunch, and only costs $25. I'm speaking in three sessions on:

The Missional Church in Principle and Practice
Breaking the Missional Code in Suburbia
Challenges to Missional Thinking and How to Overcome Them

And at the end we're making time for Q&A. There's still time to register - get all the details at Subtext.

Rick Meiggs is the Blind Beggar at Missional Tribe. He and Brother Maynard both encouraged me to begin my "Meanings of Missional" series you can find on the right side of the blog. And, special announcement... Meaning of Missional will kick back up within 2 weeks to become a 10 part series. More on that soon.

In the meantime, check out the interview below. Rick asked me a number of questions and I shared some thoughts on the missional nature of the church, cooperation, and the need for less armchair missiologists, and more real-life practitioners. Check it out below and be sure to stop by Missional Tribe.

Editors from Leadership Journal have constructed something like a Missional Family Tree that traces the influence from "The Missional Church" edited by Darrel Guder. The chart accompanies an article by Alan Hirsch on "Defining Missional." It's an interesting visual. Share your thoughts in the comments.

... from Kevin Jamison

This past February I had the opportunity to join Ed and a dozen other pastors on a trip to Barcelona, Spain. The purpose of the trip was to raise an awareness of the spiritual climate in modern-day Europe. Like many Americans, my view of foreign missions was primarily confined to the continents of Africa, Asia and South America. I had never considered Europe a priority for missions. The evening after my arrival, I sat in on a meeting with group of missionaries from across Europe. One of them told me, "I have been a missionary in Taiwan, Korea, Africa and now Europe. Europe is by far the hardest place I've ever been. Europe is a graveyard for missionaries." Those words rocked me.

Continue reading Jet Set Tour: Rome.

I just wrote an article for Catalyst on the dangerous trend of gaining converts to our causes without gaining converts to Christ. Here are a few paragraphs.

I continue to see movements gaining traction among Christians that do not seem to have many converts. In other words, they have recruits to their cause, but few converts to Christ. And, I am concerned. I am concerned that in the name of "fixing the Church" we are not proclaiming the Church's gospel.

...

So, my Reformed friends, let's not only read 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John (that is, John Calvin, John MacArthur, and John Piper), let's go plant some more churches. My emerging church friends, let's take a pause from the theological rethink and head into the neighborhood and to tell someone about Jesus. My missional friends, let's speak of justice, but always tell others how God can be both "just and justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." My house church friends, let's have community, but let's be sure it is one focused on redemption. My Baptist friends, let's focus more on convincing pagans than Presbyterians. And, my charismatic friends, let's focus less on getting existing believers to speak in tongues and more on using our tongue to tell others about Jesus

...

If you want to convince me (and the body of Christ) to your cause, you must show me it is a better way. You must tell and show something different. You must not just protest what is, but you must show me what should be.

You need to go an read the whole article to see these excerpts in context at Catalystspace.com, but come back here and let's talk about it. Agree, diasgree? Share your thoughts in the comments.

From May 22-May 30, 2009 I will be hosting a vision trip with Darrin Patrick and some of my friends with the Upstream Collective to Rome, Italy and Marseille, France.

While each of our vision trips are unique we want to incorporate the following elements into each tour:

The "Missional Tribe" is a new collaboration of friends with a passion for all things missional. They have quite a list of contributors and are focusing on grass roots idea sharing around the missional turn.

While in Chicago, Imbi Medri and Bill Kinnon (two of the co-founders of Missional Tribe) got David Fitch and me together to have a discussion about the missional church.

David is a professor at Nothern Seminary, a co-pastor / church planter at Life on the Vine, and the author of The Great Giveaway.

I was there teaching at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and we got together on a cold day in Chicago.

Check out the Missional Tribe site here and enjoy the video below:

Ed Stetzer & David Fitch - a missional conversation from Missional Tribe on Vimeo.

Alan Hirsch and Michael Frost have written a new book, Rejesus: A Wild Messiah for a Missional Church, in which they call the church to "reconfigure itself," and "recalibrate its mission, around the example and teaching of the radical rabbi from Nazareth."

Alan is a good friend and I am grateful he took the time to answer some questions here and come around the blog today to interact.

Here is our interview:

In simple terms, what problem(s) is ReJesus addressing?

We are addressing what we call 'the subversion of Christianity'; the process by which we remove the defining presence and influence of Jesus for His church, our discipleship, and mission. reJesus is about exactly that...re-Jesus-ing the church! Putting Jesus back into the most basic equation and seeing what happens!

In the past the church has sought and experienced "reformation" (the church's work to bring itself more in line with the expressed will and ways of God) and "revival" (God's work in leading his people to live more in line with his expressed will and ways). How does you call to "ReJesus" the church look similar to and/or different from what has happened throughout the history of the church?

In many ways we believe that both the renewal, as well as revival, of the church and its mission are directly related to the more elemental task of reJesusing the church. Instead of simply reforming the church and its theology, we prefer to use the term 'refounding' the church: and we suggest that we must do this by recovering the definitive role that Jesus plays in shaping church, discipleship, and mission. The fact is Ed, that we so easily remove the influence and role of Jesus from our midst. We do find it hard to live with a Lord, humans tend to prefer our own ways and agendas to that of a demanding Lord/King.

So in ReJesus, are you saying something new, or something old?

Well, actually it is ancient...primal really. Whatever we can say about Christianity, it has everything to do with Christ. Jesus is the Founder and the Gospels are our most foundational stories. We are simply renovating ancient truths. H. Richard Niebuhr was right to note that "The great Christian revolutions came not by the discovery of something that was not known before. They happen when someone takes radically something that was always there."

All of this will sound risky to many readers. Is it? How? Can you tell them why it's worth it?

Oh too right. it is risky! Particularly if we insist on clinging to our middleclass penchant for safety and security, and consumerist addiction to comfort and convenience. I believe that the closer we get to Jesus, the more 'dangerous' he is to us. We prefer to keep him at arms length and engage him from the relative safety of objective theology. Why is it worth it? Because without Jesus we have no legitimacy, or in fact do we actually have Christianity, because Christianity minus Christ equals Religion. And hey! Who wants a religion? Is it worth it? It is our eternal destiny to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom.8:29.) We cannot escape it. It is our joy, our salvation, our freedom. All else is just messing with the fringes of the faith.

Why is it that keeping Christ at the center of our confessional identity can be so much easier than remaining Christocentric in our person, practices and piety?

Because simple confession, like theology, as important as it is to our integrity, is not enough for us to truly 'know' God. I would argue that to truly know God we must supplement intellectual knowledge with that type of knowledge that can only come from engaging our hearts (our passion, feelings, our capacity for love) as well as our actions (obedience and action). We spend the good part of a chapter on this aspect of what we call "Hebraic epistemology". This is what it means to take the Shema seriously. And Jesus himself puts this at the center of a missional discipleship. "One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one" answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. 'The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:28-31 NIV) The mind is simply not enough to know and love God as we must.

In the book you make a biblical argument for experiencing and living under the Lordship of a sent and sending God. A God that is immanent, close and accessible through Jesus Christ. Is there a place for seeing and worshipping the God who is also seen as transcendent, holy and "other?"

Of course! God's transcendence is vital to a Christian understanding of God. But you are right in noticing that we have chosen to focus on the primacy and centrality of God Jesus as He is revealed in and through the Incarnation. We believe strongly that whatever ideas of God we might entertain; they must first be interpreted through the lens of Jesus--whatever that might entail. We call this fact that Jesus reveals God to us, 'The Christlike God" because we know through his life that God is indeed like Jesus--he says if you have seen him you have seen the Father...he and the Father are one!! Sure we know God through Scripture as well as nature...but the most distilled, and central, knowledge of God must be gleaned from the life, teaching, ministry of Jesus as revealed in Scripture. This is what makes us distinctly Christ-ian. This has massive implications for us, especially for our understanding of God, but it does not exhaust the extent of the revelation we find in Jesus, because not only does Jesus redefine our concept of God but also he shows us the perfect expression of humanity as God intended it. In other words, he models for us what a true human being should be like. Therefore, focusing our discipleship on Jesus forces us to take seriously the implications of following him, of becoming like him. It sets the agenda for our spirituality. It acknowledges that Jesus as our model, our teacher, and our guide is normative for the Christian life. He is the standard by which we measure ourselves, the quality of our discipleship, and therefore our spirituality

You have done much to skewer cultural conditioned views of Jesus ("bearded lady Jesus" was my favorite). But, when I read the book I wanted to ask something that is both a question and a compliment-- the Jesus you described looked a lot like you, Alan-- a wandering teacher calling for change, a wild man with a powerful message, focused on the Kingdom of God, and with a Hebrew worldview. How culturally conditioned do you think your view of Jesus might be?

None of us is free from trying to make Jesus like us on a good day! Actually that's what we are trying to 'skewer' it debunking the stereotypes of Jesus. Actually I am a strong believer in ongoing validity of the second commandment--we should not make any images of God. Every time we attempt to image God, be it mental or metal, we limit him and thereby seek to control him. We must always allow Jesus to be beyond any stereotype that we might wish to make of him. As you say, a lot of the book is iconoclastic. It's a bit of fun at our own expense really. But hey, thanks for the compliment!

While everyone can benefit from reading this book, who needs to read it (for whom is it most critical)?

We hope that the book is accessible to all thoughtful Christians. It is certainly geared towards a missional audience. But I do think it will appeal mostly to people engaged leadership and formal ministry.

As pastors seek to bring about the change you call for in the book, what are the top areas they should focus on?

Recovering Jesus in thought, imagination, action of the church. Radicalizing the church by recovering the ethos, teachings, lifestyle of the Founder. And to do this they will have to take discipleship in the Way of Jesus seriously. I can't think of anything more foundational and important to the life and mission of the church.

What other books, resources would you recommend to those who are convicted that such things need to change?

You know, I love Soren Kierkegaard, but he is probably too complex for most people to read directly. A good introduction or two on his thinking is good medicine. For instance he saw it as his life's task Soren Kierkegaard, when he said, rather cheekily, "My mission is to introduce Christianity into Christendom." Dietrich Bonheoffer's work and thinking is timeless. I loved Stanley Hauerwas' commentary on Matthew (Brazos Theological Commentary) and Jacques Ellul's work in The Subversion of Christianity, and The Presence of the Kingdom, is really excellent. Also, Debs and I are working on a book on missional discipleship--published early '10. In many ways it will be a guide to outworking what it means to take Jesus seriously. And then of course there is your work on breaking the discipleship code.

Alan will be around today to dialogue about the book. Feel free to post questions and comments below.

Philip Nation just brought by a copy of our forthcoming resource based on our Compelled By Love book. The small group study kit is not available yet, but working at the publisher has its benefits!

Here are the very first photos:

And here is the the world (blog) premier of the video (first shown at the National Outreach Convention).

You can find more info about the book and the ideas contained in this new resource here.

Here is the final video put together by the Central and Eastern Europe team. I do hope you will considering partnering with the folks there in church planting. Here is the link where you can find all the info about the ministries there.

While I was there in Europe, I also spent a couple of days in Rome. I will be talking more about this later. Darrin Patrick and I will be leading a group to Europe (Rome and Marseille) May 22 through June 1, 2009. More on that soon, but here is an interview at the Vatican talking with Chris Watts about church planting in Rome.

You can learn more at the Upstream Collective.